Week 11 GDT - Arizona Cardinals at San Francisco 49ers

[sherm]

22 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

All this stuff about not shutting down Murray this game is a but curious statement. He had 150 passing yards and a terrible YPA. Not only that, the Cardinals had 99 yards of offense in the 2nd half. He did well with his legs, but still had less than 220 total yards? Cards averaged 4.3 yards per play and had 267 total yards. 

I don't know, just don't agree with how our defense was bad this game. 

Agree. Defense still playing at a high level and has been even with all the injuries. 2nd in PPG and 1st in sacks. Even if those stats slip a bit we're in good shape. Being in the top 3 in both categories is a championship level defense. 

Not to mention we played 2 mobile QB in our last 3 gms. Also think div gms are tougher no matter the w/l record.

[J-ALL-DAY]

19 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

I dont think anyone is saying we were bad. But those type of offenses, and against those type of QBs doesn't allow us to play to our strength as a unit. Instead of getting upfield, we have to defend, sideline to sideline and that's not really what we're built for. Especially upfront and with Kwon gone. Defending the spread doesn't allow our front seven to 'eat' like they do against more traditional offenses. The stats for Murray against us though not eye-opening, are telling when you compare them to the other QBs we've faced this year, including Wilson. That's why I don't think we stand a chance against Jackson...just the pessimist in me. 

And let's remember, Kirk dropped a key third down pass where he was WIDE OPEN in the first quarter. They convert that and who knows...we might be down 23 points instead of 16 and that may have been too much for the offense to overcome. 

He dropped that pass sure, but 267 yards and 4.3 yards per play while Murray had a 4.5 YPA is not our defense playing bad. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

18 minutes ago, Forge said:

They aren't good against the run. We shouldn't struggle. If they stack the box, you have to be able to take advantage of that and make them pull back to open it back up. But we are going to have to run well at some point. 

Seattle wasn't good against the run either and neither was Arizona. But you stack the box the way those two teams did, then it's going to be hard to run regardless. In that case, our passing offense better make them pay and we better be moving the ball at will against them. Kind of like against AZ after the first quarter. 

But again, I don't think GB will defend us like that. Pettine has scheme and will play his usual defense. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

20 minutes ago, sherm said:

Agree. Defense still playing at a high level and has been even with all the injuries. 2nd in PPG and 1st in sacks. Even if those stats slip a bit we're in good shape. Being in the top 3 in both categories is a championship level defense. 

Not to mention we played 2 mobile QB in our last 3 gms. Also think div gms are tougher no matter the w/l record.

Our defense played terrible in the 2nd half of the Cardinals game and were terrible in the first quarter of the Cardinals game. Aside from that, they have been just fine. 

Edited November 19, 2019 by J-ALL-DAY

[Forge]

3 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Seattle wasn't good against the run either and neither was Arizona. But you stack the box the way those two teams did, then it's going to be hard to run regardless. In that case, our passing offense better make them pay and we better be moving the ball at will against them. Kind of like against AZ after the first quarter. 

But again, I don't think GB will defend us like that. Pettine has scheme and will play his usual defense. 

And that's what I'm saying. If we don't fix that, there's a good chance we lose. If they stack, we need to make them back off. If they don't stack, we can't be ineffective. I don't think that this game can be won on the arm of Jimmy G with no running game, basically. 

[Forge]

6 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Our defense played terrible in the 2nd half of the Cardinals game and were terrible in the first quarter of the Cardinals game. Aside from that, they have been just fine. 

Agreed. It was really just the first quarter that was ugly in this one

[J-ALL-DAY]

7 minutes ago, Forge said:

And that's what I'm saying. If we don't fix that, there's a good chance we lose. If they stack, we need to make them back off. If they don't stack, we can't be ineffective. I don't think that this game can be won on the arm of Jimmy G with no running game, basically. 

If Kittle returns, you would think the running game improves just off that and the threat he is. But I'm fine with teams doing this for as long as they want to. No problem if they continue giving our receivers one on one opportunities. I'll take my chances with Kittle/Sanders and the emerging Samuel. Eventually they will stop stacking the box.

4 minutes ago, Forge said:

Agreed. It was really just the first quarter that was ugly in this one

And don't get me wrong, it was an UGLY quarter no doubt. 

[49ersfan]

We also had 3 PI's, that could have been extra 70 yards or so in the air for Kyler. 

So about 150 yards + 70 rushing + 70 lost to PI + 20 or so lost to an egregious dropped pass, thats over 300 total yards potentially. 

I thought we played better against Wilson surprisingly, who had 285 total yards. We actually were able to sack him, make him fumble/throw picks, rattle his game etc. Murray played very clean in comparison.

[J-ALL-DAY]

8 minutes ago, 49ersfan said:

We also had 3 PI's, that could have been extra 70 yards or so in the air for Kyler. 

So about 150 yards + 70 rushing + 70 lost to PI + 20 or so lost to an egregious dropped pass, thats over 300 total yards potentially. 

I thought we played better against Wilson surprisingly, who had 285 total yards. We actually were able to sack him, make him fumble/throw picks, rattle his game etc. Murray played very clean in comparison.

Adding the PI is fine. The dropped passes happen literally every week, good luck playing that game. In that case, we would have had over 400 yards against Seattle....and that didn't happen because our receivers dropped the ball. 

Murray played "clean" because he mainly threw short passes. That is their scheme for the most part, just a bunch of screen passes or quick throws. His YPA was terrible, and overall the Cards averaged 4.3 per play, which you will take every day of the week. 

[757-NINER]

49 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Murray played "clean" because he mainly threw short passes. That is their scheme for the most part, just a bunch of screen passes or quick throws. His YPA was terrible, and overall the Cards averaged 4.3 per play, which you will take every day of the week. 

And that's my point. Short passes doesn't allow our D-Line to get off and create havoc, forcing sacks and turnovers. Forget YPA. That doesn't matter when your moving the chains and carving us up with RPOs. Its not that we played bad, we played on our heels, more often than not. That's the difference. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

Just now, 757-NINER said:

And that's my point. Short passes doesn't allow our D-Line to get off and create havoc, forcing sacks and turnovers. Forget YPA. That doesn't matter when your moving the chains and carving us up with RPOs. Its not that we played bad, we played on our heels, more often than not. That's the difference. 

It's a smart strategy against this defense but they literally didn't move the ball at all from the 2nd quarter on until the possession they scored a TD. They jumped on us early for sure and we were on our heels, but after that they either had a bunch of three and outs and didn't get far on their drives.

[straighthate]

I think you give Bosa some lessons on RPO and the defense is just fine against Baltimore in a couple weeks. He has looked bad..... very bad..... against the read option. Now the other side of the line hasn’t looked good, but not as bad as Bosa. 
 

End of last game Bosa played over the right tackle. Seemed to me like Arizona ran left much more (don’t have stats, just felt like it). Wonder if Saleh moved Bosa over because of that. 
 

Also, I don’t think Murray carved our defense up at all. Had a few big plays but defense contained him at crucial points as well. After the rough start, I think they played very well against him overall. I just think the visual of that little guy burning past our d line is hard to watch and it makes us feel like he crushed us. I just don’t think that was the case though. 

[NcFinest9erFan]

3 hours ago, Forge said:

They aren't good against the run. We shouldn't struggle. If they stack the box, you have to be able to take advantage of that and make them pull back to open it back up. But we are going to have to run well at some point. 

How much of our run offense struggles is on team stacking the box? Offensive line not opening holes? or RBs just not seeing an open lane? 

[NinerNation21]

11 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

How much of our run offense struggles is on team stacking the box? Offensive line not opening holes? or RBs just not seeing an open lane? 

It seems like the bolded is the biggest issue. No one thinks Jimmy G can beat them through the air, especially with Kittle and Staley out and Sanders hurting. The more Jimmy can beat teams through the air, the better the run game will get. 

[757-NINER]

39 minutes ago, straighthate said:

I think you give Bosa some lessons on RPO and the defense is just fine against Baltimore in a couple weeks. He has looked bad..... very bad..... against the read option. Now the other side of the line hasn’t looked good, but not as bad as Bosa. 
 

End of last game Bosa played over the right tackle. Seemed to me like Arizona ran left much more (don’t have stats, just felt like it). Wonder if Saleh moved Bosa over because of that. 
 

Also, I don’t think Murray carved our defense up at all. Had a few big plays but defense contained him at crucial points as well. After the rough start, I think they played very well against him overall. I just think the visual of that little guy burning past our d line is hard to watch and it makes us feel like he crushed us. I just don’t think that was the case though. 

Yea one would think with Bosa just coming out of college, he would be more prepared than any to handle containment on those RPOs. He just crashes down so hard, w/o reading the mesh point most of the time. Granated he did have some TFLs when the RB was the option but when Murray kept it, he pretty much had green grass in front of him.

Idk how much of that is scheme-driven, with the wide 9 and having your ends always coming downhill or if that's just Bosa but we'll have to be exponentially better when we face B-More.