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Bears and Rams, 11/17, GDT


beardown3231

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7 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

Are we really going to compare the physical talent of a generational athlete like Lamar Jackson with an above-average QB athlete like Mitch? Of course Jackson can play in an offense centered around him running the ball. Mitch is not that type of runner.

And FWIW Trubisky outscored both Mahomes and Watson in the Wonderlic but I'm not going to put his ability to read defenses and locate open receivers against theirs...

Right. Mitch has the tools and Nagy can't teach him how to use them. Nor does he do anything to make it easier on him. Matt "Im not here to run the I formation" COTY Nagy. He's horrible. Most QB's drafted as high as Mitch was who bust bust on personality i.e. Jawalrus, Ryan Leaf or injury Akili Smith. Mitch has the talent. You don't go #2 overall if you don't. He is smart enough and he has the talent. He has zero help from the coach in adapting the offense to his strengths or in the play calling. Lamarr Jackson could barely hit an open receiver last year and has improved drastically this year and he certainly isn't smarter than Mitch. So sorry not sorry but I really fail to grasp how this isn't on Nagy 100x more than Mitch. 

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7 minutes ago, Sugashane said:

I don't disagree at all, I was just stating that his rookie year shouldn't be used in much statistical evidence. I doubt Brees or Rodgers would have thrown for more than 20 TDs with that cast. It was pathetic.

But Nagy has shown me nothing to prove he can develop a QB and system, or scheme around weaknesses. He has done a better job of adjusting to run the ball more but he seems to put himself in a corner too much.

Both have been incredibly disappointing, but I think Tru is gone first (if he gets his 5th year option and plays on it or is extended to a big deal I'd probably give up on the franchise entirely)  and Nagy gets another shot to prove the current narrative wrong about him.

I have concerns over how Nagy has prepared the team, how he gets carried away with passing, and how he fails to manage in-game situations. Andy Reid has been criticized in the past for the same things. The difference is that Reid has shown many times that he can develop good QBs. If Nagy can't do that then there's no point in putting up with his other flaws.

But I'm not taking Trubisky as a lone point of evidence in the case against Nagy and I certainly don't agree that Nagy "ruined" him. And if Mitch had the unique skillset that fans claim, I doubt Nagy would actively prevent him from using that skillset while watching the season go to hell.

I think more likely is that both Nagy and Trubisky surprised some teams last season, that the league has adjusted to their tendencies, and that both are too limited to figure out an answer.

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9 minutes ago, Cheesehawk said:

The expectations of the Bears this year were too high for someone not to get fired for this disaster.

I kind of in a way feel bad for you guys. I honestly don't even think Tru is THAT terrible.. but Nagy, he's horrible. Team looks lost.

I hope you're right. They signed Nagy to a 5 year deal though, so that was a huge gamble that seems to backfire. This in inexcusable for sure.

Tru seems to be forced to be a pocket QB, but that is like forcing Brady or Brees to be a scrambler. (Obviously not comparing talent, just scheme to physical abilities and skillsets). Nagy has great playcall stretches and then horrid ones, it took him way too long to recognize how bad Shaheen was and replace him, etc. During a scramble on 3rd down he had 2 WRs on the opposite side of the field stand and watch rather than try to work themselves open, but they never got benched. It is a mess. Tru absolutely limits what Nagy can do, but IMO Nagy has limited what Tru can do well too. He took away his legs, that change in launch point is a pain in the *** for defenders and accounted for a big number of their chunk plays. Plus how many 1st downs did Tru get by rushing? It extended drives and aided a poor running attack. If defenses overplay to keep him in the pocket then that SHOULD open the other side of the line for RPO runs or shallow routes going the opposite way, etc.

It sounds way easier than it is of course, but when you're being tossed a 7-figure salary then you better be able to figure it out.

 

1 minute ago, abstract_thought said:

I have concerns over how Nagy has prepared the team, how he gets carried away with passing, and how he fails to manage in-game situations. Andy Reid has been criticized in the past for the same things. The difference is that Reid has shown many times that he can develop good QBs. If Nagy can't do that then there's no point in putting up with his other flaws.

But I'm not taking Trubisky as a lone point of evidence in the case against Nagy and I certainly don't agree that Nagy "ruined" him. And if Mitch had the unique skillset that fans claim, I doubt Nagy would actively prevent him from using that skillset while watching the season go to hell.

I think more likely is that both Nagy and Trubisky surprised some teams last season, that the league has adjusted to their tendencies, and that both are too limited to figure out an answer.

Agree on all points. I believe I have claimed he ruined Tru before, but that is poorly said. IMO he is using Tru in a manner that is very disadvantageous and has hurt Tru, himself, and the team as a whole.

People can say Nagy didn't pick him but that's false, he picked him when he took the job. If he thought he sucked predraft (and after seeing a year of film that was available) then that is completely on him. Tru definitely doesn't look like a starter, he looks like a system QB that could potentially be a top level back up, but nothing more.

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31 minutes ago, Cheesehawk said:

The expectations of the Bears this year were too high for someone not to get fired for this disaster.

I kind of in a way feel bad for you guys. I honestly don't even think Tru is THAT terrible.. but Nagy, he's horrible. Team looks lost.

I hate to agree with this but I agree with this.

Nagy has done a real bad job. There's no way to sugarcoat it or blame any one player.

He has simply done a terrible job of coaching and coordinating this offense.

He's gotta go back to basics or get someone in here who knows how to run a real NFL offense.

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13 minutes ago, abstract_thought said:

I'm not sure that Nagy is trying to force Mitch to play from the pocket. He had many opportunities to scramble tonight and he didn't take them. Is he afraid of getting hurt?

He has a torn labrum in his left shoulder. He can't be playing like a RB out there.

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11 minutes ago, topwop1 said:

He has a torn labrum in his left shoulder. He can't be playing like a RB out there.

No one is asking him to go Tebow-style though. Wilson does a great job of getting down, Rodgers gets down now (though he used to get the hell knocked out of him on scrambles), Smith has used his legs as a weapon for years, etc. Even guys like McNair, Young, Cunningham, and Kordell Stewart were able to help their passing by getting the firsts on the move and sliding/going OOB. The latter guys never played in the league when it was as protective of QBs as the league is now.

 

What I mean is scramble, if you can get 5 yards and slide or get 10 and take a hit then take the 5. Don't lower your shoulder, that's what the RBs are supposed to do. On the 3rd down where he got hit by the sideline (and Gabriel and Miller were lazily watching) he should have tried to get some yards and either get out of bounds or slide. Instead he tried to extend the play and took a good shot. You can still be conservative with your body as a QB, and you can still put yourself at major risk while staying in the pocket (Big Ben, Rodgers, any Martz-directed QB).

 

And to be honest he is losing the team IMO. If he wants to endear himself to them then maybe he needs to put himself on the line to make some plays. He can't be playing like a RB but right now he isn't even playing like a starting QB. I'd take any improvement to the offense he can offer.

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9 hours ago, topwop1 said:

Honestly I'm so ******* dejected by this team right now. 

Nagy seems like a real big fraud and we were all fooled big time.  Tru had so much promise and I think he ruined the kid not the other way around.

Tru has some wow throws at times that make you understand why people liked him in the draft. But his confidence is completely shot. They need to part ways for everyones sake. No sense in letting him backup next year. He need a coach to rebuild him and Chicago needs to distance itself from this era completely.

Tru can come to Oakland and join Gruden's island of misfit QBs with Peterman and Kizer lol

9 hours ago, topwop1 said:

When former players are publicly calling out your offense saying it has no identity or purpose to it and players look lost on the field every game that is a pretty telling sign that you are not what you were advertised to be.

Nagy sucks and Pace deserves a lot of blame for that. Wrong hire. Like I said he rode the coach of the year on Vic's D and a cupcake schedule last year. He is not good.

But he was coach of the year?? Unreal year over year transition. Guy looks completely out of depth. 3rd and 1... runs an option? 

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