The Myles Garrett incident

[warfelg]

5 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

I think he didn't give a effort to get away because for whatever reason as soon as his helmet got taken off Rudolph immediately ran up on Garrett when DeCastro already defused the situation for a breif moment. That was the whole reason why he swung the helmet because Rudolph was trying to get back in his face

I doubt we will know why that happened TBH.

As for that's the reason he swung the helmet....eh.  There shouldn't be a single way to say "that's why".  He did it because he wasn't able to disengage himself from the situation.

[NateDawg]

Also listening to Pittsburgh fans preach discipline and clean play is sweet, sweet music to my ears. 

[mtmmike]

1 minute ago, NateDawg said:

Translation: don’t let this incident disguise the fact that the Browns beat Pittsburgh fairly decisively. Pittsburgh is winning the off day.

Mayfield is really beating up on young qbs at the rate of 4wins no losses

[AkronsWitness]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

I doubt we will know why that happened TBH.

As for that's the reason he swung the helmet....eh.  There shouldn't be a single way to say "that's why".  He did it because he wasn't able to disengage himself from the situation.

I mean you can see it in the video. DeCastro pushes Garrett back and then after Rudolph gets up he charges at Garrett trying to get around DeCastro. As soon as he tried to get around DeCastro that's when Myles swung.

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, AkronsWitness said:

I mean you can see it in the video. DeCastro pushes Garrett back and then after Rudolph gets up he charges at Garrett trying to get around DeCastro. As soon as he tried to get around DeCastro that's when Myles swung.

Again I'm not questioning that at all.  The what made him think he needed to swing?  Especially at the head of a guy that isn't wearing a helmet.  

I don't talk much about my personal experience with contact sports, because it's an internet forum and our personal experiences mean nothing.  But one thing I was always taught was (1) never hit a guy that isn't wearing his helmet and (2) if you find a helmet in your head, drop it.  Blacking out isn't an excuse.  He chose to keep ahold of the helmet, he chose to not try to disengage, he chose to swing the helmet.  To me it doesn't matter how much or little time passed.  Guess what if Garrett tried to walk away and Rudolph jumped him; Garrett is playing next week and Rudolph is out for a while.

[AkronsWitness]

3 minutes ago, warfelg said:

Again I'm not questioning that at all.  The what made him think he needed to swing?  Especially at the head of a guy that isn't wearing a helmet.  

I don't talk much about my personal experience with contact sports, because it's an internet forum and our personal experiences mean nothing.  But one thing I was always taught was (1) never hit a guy that isn't wearing his helmet and (2) if you find a helmet in your head, drop it.  Blacking out isn't an excuse.  He chose to keep ahold of the helmet, he chose to not try to disengage, he chose to swing the helmet.  To me it doesn't matter how much or little time passed.  Guess what if Garrett tried to walk away and Rudolph jumped him; Garrett is playing next week and Rudolph is out for a while.

Not saying that I agree with it, but the reason he felt needed to swing on somebody was because that person was twisting his head on the ground, tried to rip his helmet off, kicked him in the groin and then you can see him screaming the word B*** at Myles when he was getting up. 

So Rudolph gave Garrett plenty of ammunition to get set off.

Against, he should have never swung the helmet--just trying to clarify both sides

[warfelg]

2 minutes ago, AkronsWitness said:

Not saying that I agree with it, but the reason he felt needed to swing on somebody was because that person was twisting his head on the ground, tried to rip his helmet off, kicked him in the groin and then you can see him screaming the word B*** at Myles when he was getting up. 

So Rudolph gave Garrett plenty of ammunition to get set off.

Against, he should have never swung the helmet--just trying to clarify both sides

He was yelling that at Ugonjobi after he hit him in the back.

Yes again, the kick in the groin happened as Garrett was yanking on Mason's facemask.  So if we're going to say that what Garrett did was needed in his view, can't we say that kicking as someone picks you up by the facemask should carry the same thought, Mason was just doing what he felt was needed?

[AkronsWitness]

1 minute ago, warfelg said:

He was yelling that at Ugonjobi after he hit him in the back.

Yes again, the kick in the groin happened as Garrett was yanking on Mason's facemask.  So if we're going to say that what Garrett did was needed in his view, can't we say that kicking as someone picks you up by the facemask should carry the same thought, Mason was just doing what he felt was needed?

Oh I agree, it turned south for both parties and Garrett finishing it the way he did was atrocious and disgusting.

However, Rudolph was looking for something by the way he initiated the sequence and then all of a sudden looked surprised when he got what he was looking for

[Ragnarok]

18 minutes ago, mtmmike said:

To be honest not sure Garrett does not win if this goes to court.

Being a lawyer and someone who has worked for a D.A.'s office, it would depend on how the state law was written.

Most states(if not all) have limits on self-defense.  For instance, typically, if someone swings on you, you can defend yourself in a like manner.  You can't pull a gun and shoot them and then claim self-defense if they just had fists.  Self-defense tends to no longer apply when you intentionally escalate.

Also, I doubt that fact that it occurred during a sporting event of some type would be a defense.  Athletes consent to be assaulted by playing football or boxing or whatever.  However, that consent falls away if someone takes an action that is way outside what a normal person would have understood the consent to include.  

[Shanedorf]

Just now, warfelg said:

He chose to keep a hold of the helmet, he chose to not try to disengage, he chose to swing the helmet.

I'll push back ever so slightly on the "chose" part. In these situations, its fight or flight and Level 1 thinking takes over.
Its part of what preserves our lives and it does not involve thinking or choosing, just reacting.
A kick to the gonads releases neurotransmitters and immediately alerts the brain to the serious threat.

That's not to excuse anything that happened, but its a little off to suggest there was any "choosing" or "thinking" going on in that melee.
If there was, it probably wouldn't have happened. The adrenaline was flowing and the amygdala was calling the shots at that point

And then we sit behind our keyboards and try to make sense of it all with Level II thinking and no threat to our safety.
Again, not excusing anything -  I'm just trying to offer a little insight on the "why" part

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, AkronsWitness said:

Oh I agree, it turned south for both parties and Garrett finishing it the way he did was atrocious and disgusting.

However, Rudolph was looking for something by the way he initiated the sequence and then all of a sudden looked surprised when he got what he was looking for

Ah yes, the got what he was looking for has come up.  Yes, Mason was yelling at Myles and wanted to be hit with the helmet.

[Dome]

39 minutes ago, warfelg said:

FWIW Damien Woody commenting that Larry Ogunjobu is getting off extremely light.  Seeing a wider video, Ogunjobu ran up, ran into Rudolph in the back, then backpedaled faster than an ESPN commentator.

He’s not getting off light.

Mike Evans laid almost an identical hit (worse maybe) on Marshon Lattimore and got one game as well. 

1 game is the standard

[The BILLievers]

LOL @ any Browns fan trying to justify Garrett hitting Rudolph in the head with his own helmet. 

Trash talk, shoving, nut hitting, etc. happens every week in skirmishes and in big piles. To swing a helmet at someones head is a whole new level. 

Zero discipline on that Browns team. 

[warfelg]

1 minute ago, Shanedorf said:

I'll push back ever so slightly on the "chose" part. In these situations, its fight or flight and Level 1 thinking takes over.
Its part of what preserves our lives and it does not involve thinking or choosing, just reacting.
A kick to the gonads releases neurotransmitters and immediately alerts the brain to the serious threat.

That's not to excuse anything that happened, but its a little off to suggest there was any "choosing" or "thinking" going on in that melee.
If there was, it probably wouldn't have happened. The adrenaline was flowing and the amygdala was calling the shots at that point

And then we sit behind our keyboards and try to make sense of it all with Level II thinking and no threat to our safety.
Again, not excusing anything -  I'm just trying to offer a little insight on the "why" part

That's the wording the NFL used. So...

[Mega Ron]

2 minutes ago, Ragnarok said:

Being a lawyer and someone who has worked for a D.A.'s office, it would depend on how the state law was written.

Most states(if not all) have limits on self-defense.  For instance, typically, if someone swings on you, you can defend yourself in a like manner.  You can't pull a gun and shoot them and then claim self-defense if they just had fists.  Self-defense tends to no longer apply when you intentionally escalate.

Also, I doubt that fact that it occurred during a sporting event of some type would be a defense.  Athletes consent to be assaulted by playing football or boxing or whatever.  However, that consent falls away if someone takes an action that is way outside what a normal person would have understood the consent to include.  

Alright Lionel Hutz