viper952 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 You can make a great case Elway was better than Montana. He dragged those 80s Broncos teams to the Super Bowl 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper952 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 On 11/21/2019 at 2:00 AM, 7DnBrnc53 said: Brady and Jerry Rice are even more overrated. LOL If anything they are underrated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TecmoSuperJoe Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, viper952 said: You can make a great case Elway was better than Montana. He dragged those 80s Broncos teams to the Super Bowl But then he played like doo doo in all of them, and it didn't have anything to do with the roster talent. If the Broncos were good enough to get to the Super Bowl, they were good enough to win one of them in the 1980s. They just played like **** Elway included. Also, this sets a slippery precedent. Is Cris Carter a better receiver than Rice because he put up big numbers without two HOF QB throwing him passes most of his career? Edited November 23, 2019 by PapaShogun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, viper952 said: LOL If anything they are underrated How on earth could you argue that either one of those guys are underrated when they're 2 of pretty much 3 people total to be in the GOAT conversation? There are a ton of offensive and defensive lineman who deserve to be in that conversation but just aren't because they don't have statistics to point to and that scheming success at their positions is significantly harder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elky Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 1 hour ago, viper952 said: You can make a great case Elway was better than Montana. He dragged those 80s Broncos teams to the Super Bowl John Elway was not better than Joe Montana. End of discussion. Montana was drafted by a team that went 2-14 the previous year. When he took over in 1980, they improved by 4 games and they won the Super Bowl in 81...without Jerry Rice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jlowe22 Posted November 23, 2019 Share Posted November 23, 2019 Lots of Montana underrating going on in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 On 11/21/2019 at 5:15 PM, Heinz D. said: I'm big on Elway. Marino and Fouts were also spectacular. Rice was the G.O.A.T. Maybe regardless of position. A lot of Montana's shine is just a reflection from Mr. Rice. Let's remember that Montana carried the 81 9ers to the SB, and also had an MVP-caliber season QBing the 84 9ers to a SB - both sans Rice. His rate stats pre-Rice are pretty comparable to post-Rice; his 89 season with Rice is clearly his best, but his 84 season is also pretty clearly his 2nd best year. Montana doesn't make my top 10 of all-time, but I think he was pretty great with or without Rice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 On 11/23/2019 at 8:17 AM, viper952 said: You can make a great case Elway was better than Montana. He dragged those 80s Broncos teams to the Super Bowl I'd certainly make that argument; as posted above, Montana was clearly the key player on the 81 9ers. Those Broncos teams had some good defensive talent, but Elway didn't get anyone on offense who was better than a role player until the early 90s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Just now, Mr Bad Example said: Montana doesn't make my top 10 of all-time, but I think he was pretty great with or without Rice. He was very good. Not sure he's in my top ten either (although I haven't thought on it). However, people consistently saying he's the G.O.A.T. makes him one of the most overrated players EVER, in my book. That's like someone insisting Curtis Martin was the greatest RB ever. It's just...NO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: He was very good. Not sure he's in my top ten either (although I haven't thought on it). However, people consistently saying he's the G.O.A.T. makes him one of the most overrated players EVER, in my book. That's like someone insisting Curtis Martin was the greatest RB ever. It's just...NO. It's a great conversation. I certainly think it's not unreasonable to put him in there, I just feel like he was the right guy with the right coach at the right time - you read about the 80s Niners and Walsh was just 2-3 steps ahead of the defenses scheme-wise. If Montana goes anywhere but SF, I'm sure he has a decent enough career, but not what it was. I think if you put guys like Elway and Marino in any number of situations, they'd be just as good. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 What's funny is that this conversation of "Montana isn't in my top 10"....but he's in my top 15 will result in people getting angry about my opinion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said: It's a great conversation. I certainly think it's not unreasonable to put him in there, I just feel like he was the right guy with the right coach at the right time - you read about the 80s Niners and Walsh was just 2-3 steps ahead of the defenses scheme-wise. If Montana goes anywhere but SF, I'm sure he has a decent enough career, but not what it was. I think if you put guys like Elway and Marino in any number of situations, they'd be just as good. Walsh was phenomenal, although overrated as an innovator. Elway would have had Montana-like success on that 49ers team. Montana would have had at least some success anywhere else. Let's not forget that 49ers organization cheated horribly to become the dynasty they were, either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Heinz D. said: Walsh was phenomenal, although overrated as an innovator. Elway would have had Montana-like success on that 49ers team. Montana would have had at least some success anywhere else. IIRC Walsh wanted Steve Dils (or was it Fuller? No matter, both were equally forgettable)....do I think SF wins 4 SBs with Steve Dils/Fuller? Heck no. But if they had been in position to grab, say, Phil Simms? Yes, then they are equally successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, Mr Bad Example said: IIRC Walsh wanted Steve Dils (or was it Fuller? No matter, both were equally forgettable)....do I think SF wins 4 SBs with Steve Dils/Fuller? Heck no. But if they had been in position to grab, say, Phil Simms? Yes, then they are equally successful. Walsh ALMOST traded for Elway when Elway was rejecting the Colts. And would have included Montana in the deal... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Bad Example Posted November 24, 2019 Share Posted November 24, 2019 Whatever you think of Walsh as a coach, the man undisputably had an eye for talent. If true, that says a LOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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