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Current Running Backs, and Wide Receivers That are Hall of Famers


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6 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

The quality of the team has nothing to do with it. Compiling is purely a function of games or seasons played and carries/catches made. Calling Gore a compiler and not Bettis doesn't make sense. Bettis had more touches and played in more games and has fewer yards from scrimmage than Gore. Gore will likely pass Bettis in rushing yards on 400+ fewer carries. Your arguments for Bettis not being a compiler don't make sense. Him not going to another team is irrelevant. Him playing for a good Steelers team is irrelevant. He continued racking up carries past his prime, and is where he is in career totals primarily due to his number of carries and games/seasons played. That's what compiling is.

And again, to reiterate, those 100 yard games are not impressive. Any RB, given 30 carries, will likely top 100 yards. One of the games he had 31 carries for 100 yards even. That's objectively bad. That's in the realm of Trent Richardson's career YPA bad.

The overwhelming number of HOF players were key components of winning teams, and that's the primary objective of team sports. While Frank Gore was a key part of some good Niners teams, he's going on his third season of irrelevancy. While he'll eventually get in, these nothing burger seasons for the Colts aren't the way to end a career. So many other HOF backs faded in their last two seasons, so it's important to note Bettis made a significant contribution in a 15-1 AFC TG season, and delivered a big performance in a backup role to help the 2005 Steelers gain the playoffs. Like Dan Marino with rushing yards, it's unfair to use the yards per scrimmage when comparing Bettis with much lighter, faster backs, who were factors in the passing game. Bettis does own a lifetime YPA roughly identical to John Riggins, who was lighter and much faster.

So what you got with Bettis wasn't a great YPA, or receiving numbers. More importantly, you had a physical dimension, which punished defenses, and often resulted in wins despite mediocre QB play.  The great backs can produce, even when everyone in the stadium knows they are getting the ball, and Bettis had amazing durability. He was the closer, and the YPA will always suffer when a back has to convert those 3rd and short situations. Earl Campbell had a better peak, but his value ended with the Oilers. Bettis was valuable at an age when so many other HOF backs were playing out the string on losing teams. Yes, obscure backs have gained 100 yards on 30 carries, just like obscure passers throw for 300 yards occasionally. But the great backs can still deliver for playoff teams, even on the downside of their careers. I'm not suggesting the 2004 season compares with Bettis' Pro Bowl seasons, but it still a key contribution to a 15-1 playoff offense.              

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On 9/11/2017 at 10:07 PM, UofMfan909 said:

I think Antonio Brown is a very safe bet to get in. He already has 3 1st Team All Pro Selections. The only receivers since 1970 who have more than 3 for their whole career are Jerry Rice, Randy Moss, and Terrell Owens. If he gets another nod this year it'll be tough to leave him out, considering an elite season this year and four more solid ones get him in or very near the top ten all time in receiving yards. 

Don't see it with any RBs besides Peterson. Closest is Gore who I don't think gets there. Don't see a path for Charles or McCoy to turn in a stronger case than Gore.  The best bet is honestly Zeke, since he has a very real chance to have 6-7 years as a top 1-2 back in the league. LeVeon could do the same by absolutely dominating three or four straight years, but at 25 he doesn't have the same opportunity that Zeke does. Everyone older is knocked by how much non-Peterson parity there was year to year among RBs over the last ten years. 

I agree, of course. And I'll just point out the Terrell Davis standard, as well. I know Davis had crazy Playoffs, as well, but the fact is, Davis is ranked 55th in Career Yds and 48th in Career TDs, and only dominated for 3 seasons. Well, so has Antonio, and also has 3 AP 1st Team All-Pros, and has a 2nd team All Pro, as well. Then add in him being the 1st player to ever post 1000yd receiving/1000yds returning season, plus his 5/50 streak, that no one has ever done (I know, many feel that it's 'meh', but it's still quite impressive).

Brown should be in the top 50 in yards and top 40 in Receptions, barring injuries, by the end of this season. He's led the league in Receiving Yards once, All-Purpose Yards once, Receptions twice. He also ranks 8th all-time for Catch Rate among WRs with more than 2500 career yds.

Point is, when analyzing selections of the past, it's fairly evident the voters will not just consider "Antonio Brown--Regular Season WR with total yards and TDs"; they will consider playoffs, PR/KR TDs, APYds, and yes, All-Pros, and other weird records like his 5/50 streak and the 1000/1000yd-deal.

 

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I don't mean to diss Gore... and his longevity at a position not often associated with the term is admirable.  But is he really a HOFer?  He had an amazing sophomore year... but has he been considered one of the elite backs in the league outside that season?  

Comparing him to someone like CJ, who I don't see as a HOFer... does he really stack up as a HOF RB?  Over their starting seasons, these were their averages:

  • CJ - 2008-2015 (8 years)
    • 1,180 rushing yards
    • 4.5 ypc
    • 1,457 yards from scimage
    • 8 tot TDs
    • 3 fumbles
    • 3x PB, 1x All Pro, 1x ROY, 1x OPOY 
    • 4 years of 1,200+ rushing yards
    • 6 years of 1,400+ yards from scrimmage
  • Gore - 2006-2016 (11 years)
    • 1,132 rushing yards
    • 4.4 ypc
    • 1,432 yards from scrimmage
    • 8 tot TDs
    • 4 fumbles
    • 5x PB
    • 3 years of 1,200+ rushing yards
    • 5 years of 1,400+ yards from scrimmage

Other than longevity (and some other stats like y/rec), CJ shows better efficiency, had a more dominant season, and had a stronger peak.  Does longevity really play that much of a role in determining the greatest players?  Testaverde and Bledsoe retired as the 6th and 7th all time passers (at the time).  Good players, played a heck of a long time, respected members of their organizations on/off field ... but not HOFers.  Doesn't that define Gore?  

 

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3 hours ago, ragevsuall17 said:

I don't mean to diss Gore... and his longevity at a position not often associated with the term is admirable.  But is he really a HOFer?  He had an amazing sophomore year... but has he been considered one of the elite backs in the league outside that season?  

Comparing him to someone like CJ, who I don't see as a HOFer... does he really stack up as a HOF RB?  Over their starting seasons, these were their averages:

  • CJ - 2008-2015 (8 years)
    • 1,180 rushing yards
    • 4.5 ypc
    • 1,457 yards from scimage
    • 8 tot TDs
    • 3 fumbles
    • 3x PB, 1x All Pro, 1x ROY, 1x OPOY 
    • 4 years of 1,200+ rushing yards
    • 6 years of 1,400+ yards from scrimmage
  • Gore - 2006-2016 (11 years)
    • 1,132 rushing yards
    • 4.4 ypc
    • 1,432 yards from scrimmage
    • 8 tot TDs
    • 4 fumbles
    • 5x PB
    • 3 years of 1,200+ rushing yards
    • 5 years of 1,400+ yards from scrimmage

Other than longevity (and some other stats like y/rec), CJ shows better efficiency, had a more dominant season, and had a stronger peak.  Does longevity really play that much of a role in determining the greatest players?  Testaverde and Bledsoe retired as the 6th and 7th all time passers (at the time).  Good players, played a heck of a long time, respected members of their organizations on/off field ... but not HOFers.  Doesn't that define Gore?  

 

I think the difference is how rushing yards are more difficult to attain than passing yards. It's just more impressive to be a top ten back in lifetime rushing yards, and we have to remember it was easier for Testaverde and Bledsoe to rack up passing yardage when compared with the QBs who came before them. Also, Testaverde never won anything, and Bledsoe wasn't that great in his SB loss to Green Bay. Gore had over 100 yards in his SB appearance, and is the Niners all time leading rusher. It's not longevity, but talent, which will put Gore in the HOF someday. Chris Johnson is in the very good category, he just faded after a short peak.

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