Offseason Work to do

[MOSteelers56]

27 minutes ago, AlanFanecaFan said:

Let Samuels and Snell battle it out...just mid round picks...best man win.

I know Snell could go LevBell and lose a bit of weight etc etc but Samuels seems to be limited to 3rd down ditoes(good in pass pro).

I’m looking at this in a more short term way...the fastest path to help the Steelers for 2-3 years as in the same way the GM is constructing this team.

I agree with that. I do think RB will probably make the most impact of any rookie position. I just don't see how much it would really change us because I think Conner is still going to be "the guy." Snell also showed some major strides last season. 

[jebrick]

3 hours ago, AlanFanecaFan said:

Let Samuels and Snell battle it out...just mid round picks...best man win.

I know Snell could go LevBell and lose a bit of weight etc etc but Samuels seems to be limited to 3rd down ditoes(good in pass pro).

I’m looking at this in a more short term way...the fastest path to help the Steelers for 2-3 years as in the same way the GM is constructing this team.

Conner is a mid round pick.  If you draft Dobbin or Etienne, he is starting.  I doubt Conner is on the team next year.  Can't stay healthy

[43M]

18 minutes ago, jebrick said:

Conner is a mid round pick.  If you draft Dobbin or Etienne, he is starting.  I doubt Conner is on the team next year.  Can't stay healthy

By "next year", do you mean 2021?  Because I guarantee they arent cutting him.

Until our run blocking improves, I dont see the point in investing much into RB.  

[jebrick]

4 minutes ago, FourThreeMafia said:

By "next year", do you mean 2021?  Because I guarantee they arent cutting him.

Until our run blocking improves, I dont see the point in investing much into RB.  

When Conner's contract runs out he is gone.

[AFF]

1 hour ago, jebrick said:

Conner is a mid round pick.  If you draft Dobbin or Etienne, he is starting.  I doubt Conner is on the team next year.  Can't stay healthy

I’d have rookie and Conner share work truthfully. Yes Conner was a 3rd rounder, but isa solid overall RB but looks to be better off part of a 1-2 punch.

[Chieferific]

RB is a priority imo. Connors can't stay healthy and has only been really good for about 1/2 a Season. A top notch RB takes the Offense to another level. Samuels has shown more then Snell imo but I get not wanting to cut him after his Rookie year.  I'd cut him or put him on PS tho.  Akers is my guy but Etienne could be special and Samuels could handle the 3rd and longs. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Chieferific

[Dcash4]

I cannot stress enough how big of a mistake I see taking a running back anywhere in this draft would be. 

Like them or not, there are 3 NFL capable guys currently on the roster at the best prices you will find. It’s the easiest position to fill on the quick with capable bodies. It’s the position most easily replaces by a rookie in the future on a one year change. 

Everyone wants to cut Barron. That means replacing 70% of the defensive snaps. Everyone wants to cut McDonald. That means finding any sort of number 1 TE (to go along with the number 2 and 3 TE we need). Everyone wants to cut Foster, and Finney is unlikely to return. Pouncey and Villy will be turning over soon. We are losing Hargrave. We have no depth at OLB. Haden is getting old and Hilton and Sutton are on last years of deals. Edmunds -That’s it, that’s the whole thought there. We have no safety depth. 

No, let’s totally draft a RB in the second round. 

[VigilantZombie]

Whether ppl like it or not, I'd be stunned if they made RB a priority this offseason. 

Conner, Snell, Samuels and probably Whyte will be our RBs for 2020. I agree that Conner cannot be depended upon to stay healthy. But it wont matter.

I'd be surprised if anything happens with the TE position, even though McDonald cant stay healthy.

My hope is somehow we can afford to sign Karl Joseph and he wins the job over Edmunds but thats a pipe dream.

More than likely they're gonna tag Dupree, put the 2nd RFA on Hilton,  Feiler. Resign Jordan Dangerfield. Let Hargrave, Finney walk and cut Foster.

[VigilantZombie]

As far as cutting Foster. The smart thing is to do so AND let Finney walk.

Move Feiler to LG and let Banner and Okorafor battle for the RT position.

Barron isnt very good. Not worth the money. He is a lock to be on the roster in 2020 imo

Edited January 8, 2020 by wwhickok

[Chieferific]

6 hours ago, Dcash4 said:

I cannot stress enough how big of a mistake I see taking a running back anywhere in this draft would be. 

Like them or not, there are 3 NFL capable guys currently on the roster at the best prices you will find. It’s the easiest position to fill on the quick with capable bodies. It’s the position most easily replaces by a rookie in the future on a one year change. 

Everyone wants to cut Barron. That means replacing 70% of the defensive snaps. Everyone wants to cut McDonald. That means finding any sort of number 1 TE (to go along with the number 2 and 3 TE we need). Everyone wants to cut Foster, and Finney is unlikely to return. Pouncey and Villy will be turning over soon. We are losing Hargrave. We have no depth at OLB. Haden is getting old and Hilton and Sutton are on last years of deals. Edmunds -That’s it, that’s the whole thought there. We have no safety depth. 

No, let’s totally draft a RB in the second round. 

I see your point but I'm not looking to draft depth in the 2nd rd.  Of the 3 RBs only Connor has shown the ability to be a legit starting RB and that wasn't even for a whole Season.  Aside from better QB play, one of the top RBs would make the biggest difference to the Offense imo. TE would be 2nd.  There is no question the Defense can't be assumed to be set.  Even if Dupree is signed there is a chance he regresses.  I'm all for adding more Safety help and Haden is going to need to be replaced soon. I agree with those Defensive POVs but based on last year's performance RB is a major need as is TE and improved OL blocking and/or personnel. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by Chieferific

[Dcash4]

6 hours ago, Chieferific said:

I see your point but I'm not looking to draft depth in the 2nd rd.  Of the 3 RBs only Connor has shown the ability to be a legit starting RB and that wasn't even for a whole Season.  Aside from better QB play, one of the top RBs would make the biggest difference to the Offense imo. TE would be 2nd.  There is no question the Defense can't be assumed to be set.  Even if Dupree is signed there is a chance he regresses.  I'm all for adding more Safety help and Haden is going to need to be replaced soon. I agree with those Defensive POVs but based on last year's performance RB is a major need as is TE and improved OL blocking and/or personnel. 

But, ultimately, what is a 2nd round running back if not depth? Connor is the top dog. Like him or not, the Steelers really like Snell. That puts 2 guys ahead on the pecking order. I understand Connors Injury history, but you cannot just assume injury. We could draft a 2nd round RB, watch Connor play 16 games and have spent a high end pick on a wasted position.

Also, our running woes run way deeper than the talent at Running Back. For me, personally, that wouldnt even crack my top 5 issues in creating a better run game. Most of our issues stem directly from not having a capable QB under center. We faces stacked/numbered boxes, constant single high, safety depth at -10-12 rather than 12-15+, we were without our FB and had awful TE play, we completely eliminated audibles from our young guys, we got rid of RPO WR screen/stays that help control LBers and fight the numbers game (seems to be a Ben only thing). Connor and Snell both still averaged 4.0 yards per carry despite everything lined up in their way against them. That doesnt even begin to touch on playcalling, but I will let Fichtner have the day off from my criticism. 

I underline two that are super important to this conversation. Because if we are judging last years backs on a talent standpoint, we have to remember that when things were not to our advantage playcall wise - we went ahead and did it anyway. 7 fixes a lot of this, so does a year of growth with Mason. 

OLine is going to have the floor drop out on it if we dont start putting talent in that pool. My hope is that we take an OG/C somewhere in the first two rounds this year, and potentially take a LT early next. Its also a position where development is key, so getting a depth pick now is worthwhile to grow whereas a RB has been proven to hit the ground running as a rookie more often than any position. DB > RB in value and use next year. If Barron is gone that's 700+ snaps that need replaced. TE is a must at some point in the draft. Safety has 2 capable guys on the roster, and one is highly questionable at his position right now. While I think this is filled in a vet stop game, NT is going to be a need as well to replace Hargraves 45% of snaps on defense (60% last year, but thats without Tuitt). 

To me, the math just doesnt add up in anyway to take an RB. Too many other needs, too much being made about the RB struggles when  most issues were outside of the their control. I dont doubt that there is a really good running back we could draft in the second and that they couldn't have success -- I really ask how much of a difference would they make over the stable we currently have and at what cost do we lose out on significantly more important positions of need?

[Chieferific]

28 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

But, ultimately, what is a 2nd round running back if not depth? Connor is the top dog. Like him or not, the Steelers really like Snell. That puts 2 guys ahead on the pecking order. I understand Connors Injury history, but you cannot just assume injury. We could draft a 2nd round RB, watch Connor play 16 games and have spent a high end pick on a wasted position.

Also, our running woes run way deeper than the talent at Running Back. For me, personally, that wouldnt even crack my top 5 issues in creating a better run game. Most of our issues stem directly from not having a capable QB under center. We faces stacked/numbered boxes, constant single high, safety depth at -10-12 rather than 12-15+, we were without our FB and had awful TE play, we completely eliminated audibles from our young guys, we got rid of RPO WR screen/stays that help control LBers and fight the numbers game (seems to be a Ben only thing). Connor and Snell both still averaged 4.0 yards per carry despite everything lined up in their way against them. That doesnt even begin to touch on playcalling, but I will let Fichtner have the day off from my criticism. 

I underline two that are super important to this conversation. Because if we are judging last years backs on a talent standpoint, we have to remember that when things were not to our advantage playcall wise - we went ahead and did it anyway. 7 fixes a lot of this, so does a year of growth with Mason. 

OLine is going to have the floor drop out on it if we dont start putting talent in that pool. My hope is that we take an OG/C somewhere in the first two rounds this year, and potentially take a LT early next. Its also a position where development is key, so getting a depth pick now is worthwhile to grow whereas a RB has been proven to hit the ground running as a rookie more often than any position. DB > RB in value and use next year. If Barron is gone that's 700+ snaps that need replaced. TE is a must at some point in the draft. Safety has 2 capable guys on the roster, and one is highly questionable at his position right now. While I think this is filled in a vet stop game, NT is going to be a need as well to replace Hargraves 45% of snaps on defense (60% last year, but thats without Tuitt). 

To me, the math just doesnt add up in anyway to take an RB. Too many other needs, too much being made about the RB struggles when  most issues were outside of the their control. I dont doubt that there is a really good running back we could draft in the second and that they couldn't have success -- I really ask how much of a difference would they make over the stable we currently have and at what cost do we lose out on significantly more important positions of need?

Excellent points. Having Ben back should open up some holes for the RBs. Speaking on the just Offensive side of the ball (fair or not) to me RB and TE are the most upgradable. I know I'm beating the same drum but I would (they won't) draft Akers or Etienne and have Connors be the spell back. There are OG/OCs to be had with the 3rd Rd Comp and in the 4th that would provide solid depth now and be future starters. You're absolutely correct tho. There are far more players that could be brought in and make a difference then there are draft picks available. 

[Dcash4]

23 minutes ago, Chieferific said:

Excellent points. Having Ben back should open up some holes for the RBs. Speaking on the just Offensive side of the ball (fair or not) to me RB and TE are the most upgradable. I know I'm beating the same drum but I would (they won't) draft Akers or Etienne and have Connors be the spell back. There are OG/OCs to be had with the 3rd Rd Comp and in the 4th that would provide solid depth now and be future starters. You're absolutely correct tho. There are far more players that could be brought in and make a difference then there are draft picks available. 

Its just a difference of opinion. I just dont see a rookie running back coming in and being substantially different than our current guys (especially because I view Connor as a top 10 back if healthy). To me, you write that position off this year and see the progression of Snell and the health of Connor. If it stays the same or regresses further, address the position in 2021 draft and find a lead back. 

There is also a half decent list of RBs whos contracts expire after the 2020 season who might be available for trade depending on circumstance. If we needed to make a move mid-season, Running Back is the easiest to transition in. Tevin Coleman, Damien Williams, Malcolm Brown, Cohen, Jamaal Williams, Justin Jackson are guys likely not to see another contract with their current team. Not to mention guys like Alvin Kamara, Joe Mixon, Marlon Mack, Aaron Jones, Chris Carson, and Philip Lindsay who, depending on season, might be able to had for a price rather than their team spending top money to resign. 

Honestly, the more I research that position in FA for 2021, the more I believe we shouldnt be touching RB this year. Between that list of potential available guys we should reasonably be able to get a lead back in FA or have RBs pushed further down draft boards. 

[jebrick]

18 hours ago, Chieferific said:

RB is a priority imo. Connors can't stay healthy and has only been really good for about 1/2 a Season. A top notch RB takes the Offense to another level. Samuels has shown more then Snell imo but I get not wanting to cut him after his Rookie year.  I'd cut him or put him on PS tho.  Akers is my guy but Etienne could be special and Samuels could handle the 3rd and longs. 

I just do not think it is a priority to the Steelers.  They are still conservative in their player management ( ignoring the craziness of this year).  My scenario out be one of the big 5 RB is there at #49 and the Steelers trade down for some good picks.

[jebrick]

2 minutes ago, Dcash4 said:

Its just a difference of opinion. I just dont see a rookie running back coming in and being substantially different than our current guys (especially because I view Connor as a top 10 back if healthy). To me, you write that position off this year and see the progression of Snell and the health of Connor. If it stays the same or regresses further, address the position in 2021 draft and find a lead back. 

There is also a half decent list of RBs whos contracts expire after the 2020 season who might be available for trade depending on circumstance. If we needed to make a move mid-season, Running Back is the easiest to transition in. Tevin Coleman, Damien Williams, Malcolm Brown, Cohen, Jamaal Williams, Justin Jackson are guys likely not to see another contract with their current team. Not to mention guys like Alvin Kamara, Joe Mixon, Marlon Mack, Aaron Jones, Chris Carson, and Philip Lindsay who, depending on season, might be able to had for a price rather than their team spending top money to resign. 

Honestly, the more I research that position in FA for 2021, the more I believe we shouldnt be touching RB this year. Between that list of potential available guys we should reasonably be able to get a lead back in FA or have RBs pushed further down draft boards. 

I do not think Connor will ever be healthy for a full season.  His running style and the fact that he went through Chemo ( which takes a toll on the body) just make me believe that he will not be long for the NFL.