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mwalker

Offseason Work to do

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People are definitely making too much of the NT position. Hargrave only played 63% of the snaps last year according to that article. That was with Tuitt’s injury. He would have probably only played 40% of the snaps if that doesn’t happen. That’s a high end because Hargrave is actually good. I think Alualu and Dan can hold up at NT for 25-30% of the snaps. Wormley can help give Alualu a break in his snaps at DE. I think it’ll be fine.

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

People are definitely making too much of the NT position. Hargrave only played 63% of the snaps last year according to that article. That was with Tuitt’s injury. He would have probably only played 40% of the snaps if that doesn’t happen. That’s a high end because Hargrave is actually good. I think Alualu and Dan can hold up at NT for 25-30% of the snaps. Wormley can help give Alualu a break in his snaps at DE. I think it’ll be fine.

If they don’t sign a true NT, it’ll definitely be something to keep in the vault for when they play Balt as reason why they lose if they can’t stop Balt’s running game. The only reason I keep saying they should sign one is so they can have a better chance of stopping Balt & Tenn in the playoffs. 
 

Personally, I totally understand that most NTs only play 50%of the game - if that - but vs Balt & Tenn, that would probably be closer to like 70%.

Edited by turtle28

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2 hours ago, turtle28 said:

Who's UG3?

Ulysees Gilbert III - Speedy ILB from  Akron Zips.  6th round pick last year.

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9 hours ago, jebrick said:

I can't remember who was telling you guys that exact thing.  Oh wait!  It was me B|

I don't remember anyone disagreeing with you.  However, I think there is still a place for that traditional NT.  One that warrants a 6th or 7th Rd pick and one that could kick Dan off the roster.  Also, I don't need my traditional NT to Pass Rush.  I need him to occupy 2 and allow my Pass Rushers to go 1 on 1.  

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15 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

People are definitely making too much of the NT position. Hargrave only played 63% of the snaps last year according to that article. That was with Tuitt’s injury. He would have probably only played 40% of the snaps if that doesn’t happen. That’s a high end because Hargrave is actually good. I think Alualu and Dan can hold up at NT for 25-30% of the snaps. Wormley can help give Alualu a break in his snaps at DE. I think it’ll be fine.

The only part that worries me is that defense is dictated by offense. If teams look at our NT-less team, with Vince Williams and Edmunds in a more 2 high look and say - hey we like that - will they force us to play more base? And if they do, can we play that way? 

If this was 3 years ago with the Killer Bs, i would be more happy knowing our offense could force their hand. I don’t think our strategy at this point is wrong, but I do think there is potential for it to be majorly flawed. 

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Even of a team did force us into base we could just put Alualu in there at NT. We played an entire season with Kimo Von Oelhoffen at NT and that was 20 years ago when everyone still ran out of the power I formation. If Tuitt and Heyward are healthy, we’re going to be fine. Even if they aren’t, we’re far deeper at DE than we have been in the past. 

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3 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Even of a team did force us into base we could just put Alualu in there at NT. We played an entire season with Kimo Von Oelhoffen at NT and that was 20 years ago when everyone still ran out of the power I formation. If Tuitt and Heyward are healthy, we’re going to be fine. Even if they aren’t, we’re far deeper at DE than we have been in the past. 

The fear that is that he has never done that. Are we too light (not necessarily in weight, but ability) to consistently stop the run with Tyson at NT? Are we too vulnerable against the pass with Vince/Edmunds in the middle if they are necessarily to stop the run? Base defense could be a concern, because it feels like we don’t think we will be playing it often. 

Ravens and Browns are going to be two teams in our division that should be 2 TE heavy. Those games are key for us making playoffs. That’s a lot of high pressure usage of the NT position that we don’t seem to care about. 

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Yes, Alualu can do it. We don’t need a big 2 gapper. Even in our base we still attack with the line more than we used to. Also, our NT isn’t going to need to command a double team. Tuitt and Cam will. Does it matter who is occupying the o-linemen, if they’re getting occupied? It seems like fans have it in their heads that the ONLY way to do anything is exactly by the book. 

We can stop the run out of the nickel, we can stop the run out of base with Alualu at the nose. It’s all about scheme. Also, stopping the run isn’t as important as stopping the pass. I know I’ll get attacked for saying it, but it’s true. This isn’t the NFL from 25 years ago. 

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40 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Yes, Alualu can do it. We don’t need a big 2 gapper. Even in our base we still attack with the line more than we used to. Also, our NT isn’t going to need to command a double team. Tuitt and Cam will. Does it matter who is occupying the o-linemen, if they’re getting occupied? It seems like fans have it in their heads that the ONLY way to do anything is exactly by the book. 

We can stop the run out of the nickel, we can stop the run out of base with Alualu at the nose. It’s all about scheme. 

I really don’t disagree with anything, but I’m not as stone cold locked on that premise. I’m not convinced a guy who never did a thing and a defense that never played a certain way is going to work just cuz. I get the logic behind the amount of base we have played, but again, the other teams dictate that. Our defense has had stretches of being weak against the run, even with Hargreaves as a more suitable NT (though, not perfect). If we have problems playing the run in base or against the pass because we need our run game backers on to make up the difference, who’s gonna be shocked? 

44 minutes ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Also, stopping the run isn’t as important as stopping the pass. I know I’ll get attacked for saying it, but it’s true. This isn’t the NFL from 25 years ago. 

The Ravens will run, the Browns should run, and the Bengals with a rookie QB should rely on the run. Again, I’m definitely on your side, but I like to look at both sides. They always say don’t do the thing the other team wants you to do. If I was the other team, what would I want the Steelers to do? And it’s play a lot of base. 

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6 hours ago, MOSteelers56 said:

Even of a team did force us into base we could just put Alualu in there at NT. We played an entire season with Kimo Von Oelhoffen at NT and that was 20 years ago when everyone still ran out of the power I formation. If Tuitt and Heyward are healthy, we’re going to be fine. Even if they aren’t, we’re far deeper at DE than we have been in the past. 

That was playing 2 gap.  They play way less 2 gap now.  They need Kirkland/VWill to pound the run hard to make it work.

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1 hour ago, jebrick said:

That was playing 2 gap.  They play way less 2 gap now.  They need Kirkland/VWill to pound the run hard to make it work.

But wouldn’t playing more 1-gap benefit a player like Alualu? He’s not going to be asked to hold two gaps like Kimo was. And I said in an earlier comment that it really doesn’t matter who gets double teamed, just as long as someone does. Even if Alualu isn’t garnering a double team, I’d be willing to bet Tuitt and Cam will be.

Also, you’re better at this stuff than me. I don’t remember watching Kirkland play and it’s hard to find good highlights of players back then. Do you think Kirkland could play in today’s NFL? Just curious to what you think. I’d love to have him starting next to Bush, but I may be looking back with rose colored lenses.

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I am just saying that 2 gap sucks up more Oline attention and makes it easier for the LBs to flow to the play.  1 gap is a disruptor and if you fail or pick the wrong gap you are in trouble.

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On 5/23/2020 at 9:18 PM, jebrick said:

Ulysees Gilbert III - Speedy ILB from  Akron Zips.  6th round pick last year.

Thanks, I literately still don’t know who he is, but I’ll look him up.

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On 5/24/2020 at 1:54 PM, Dcash4 said:

The fear that is that he has never done that. Are we too light (not necessarily in weight, but ability) to consistently stop the run with Tyson at NT? Are we too vulnerable against the pass with Vince/Edmunds in the middle if they are necessarily to stop the run? Base defense could be a concern, because it feels like we don’t think we will be playing it often. 

Ravens and Browns are going to be two teams in our division that should be 2 TE heavy. Those games are key for us making playoffs. That’s a lot of high pressure usage of the NT position that we don’t seem to care about. 

Exactly my point and why I want the Steelers to extend Heyward and give Dupree a long term deal to free up some cap space to sign Damon “Snacks” Harrison. 
 

The Steelers could open up $10-15 million in cap space if they give Heyward an extension and Dupree a LTD.

Edited by turtle28

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