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GDT Week 12: Broncos@Bills


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3 minutes ago, champ11 said:

Our next GM might put together that mobile QB = good with OL = bad but idk we'll see. traditional football and all that 

Our current GM would probably draft said mobile QB....and then fit him into a drop-back scheme that minimizes his skills.

So yeah...I'm just hoping Elway takes a pass.   If Lock is a hit, so be it, and great.  If Lock is a whiff, let it be Elway's last kick at the can with early draft capital.   We all know that 2020 is safe for Elway, but the seat's finally start to warm up, nothing is set in stone for 2021+...   I'd rather let new blood start fresh for 2021 at QB if this all goes to h*** in a handbasket next year.

Edited by Broncofan
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17 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

I’m trying to see why, after minimal action in three preseason games, so many fans are already writing off Lock. 

We knew Lock was drafted we knew he was going to require some seasoning and some patience. He has all the physical tools you could ask for but also has received exceptionally high marks for Intangibles like work ethic, energy, enthusiasm, commitment, willingness to accept coaching, etc. He’s also a fit for this offense with the arm strength and athleticism Scangarello called “non-negotiable” traits of his QB. 

Is this just part of the instant gratification society in which we live? If the guy doesn’t look like Peyton Manning in the first preseason game of his rookie year we write him off? Or is it because some hot-take artist on the radio says so? 

I was a Lock supporter, even said I’d have been fine taking him at #10.....then I watched him at a training camp practice where he was alarmingly bad.  I really don’t even know how to put it into words how bad he was.  It was too the point where I was starting to feel bad for him that they continued giving him reps because he was literally embarrassing himself.  I posted after attending the practice about this and that Lock was very clearly the worst of Denver’s 4 QBs at the time (Flacco, Hogan, and Rypien being the other 3). 

But then I heard D-mac say Lock wasn’t good a few days ago and it cemented it for me.  Been tuning into his show everyday since. ;) 

I think Lock has the potential to develop, but I don’t know that he’s at the stage of being the unquestioned starter moving into next year....which means Elway will need to make some tough decisions at QB for the 6th year in a row.

Edited by germ-x
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1 hour ago, germ-x said:

I was a Lock supporter, even said I’d have been fine taking him at #10.....then I watched him at a training camp practice where he was alarmingly bad.  I really don’t even know how to put it into words how bad he was.  It was too the point where I was starting to feel bad for him that they continued giving him reps because he was literally embarrassing himself.  I posted after attending the practice about this and that Lock was very clearly the worst of Denver’s 4 QBs at the time (Flacco, Hogan, and Rypien being the other 3). 

But then I heard D-mac say Lock wasn’t good a few days ago and it cemented it for me.  Been tuning into his show everyday since. ;) 

I think Lock has the potential to develop, but I don’t know that he’s at the stage of being the unquestioned starter moving into next year....which means Elway will need to make some tough decisions at QB for the 6th year in a row.

How can we believe that Denver has to go and draft a new QB again?
Even an average QB can shine behind a correct offensive line. The key is to keep defenders away from QB. If your line dominates not need a QB of the top 10 draft. Even with 2 TOP 10 in the future draft I would not like QB. Let's build a line and bring the QB afterwards. It becomes ridiculous this debate on the QB in 2020 in 2021 or Drew Lock. We have a second round let's play it that's all. The priority is the line.

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13 minutes ago, French Fan said:

How can we believe that Denver has to go and draft a new QB again?
Even an average QB can shine behind a correct offensive line. The key is to keep defenders away from QB. If your line dominates not need a QB of the top 10 draft. Even with 2 TOP 10 in the future draft I would not like QB. Let's build a line and bring the QB afterwards. It becomes ridiculous this debate on the QB in 2020 in 2021 or Drew Lock. We have a second round let's play it that's all. The priority is the line.

There's definitely merit to the point - unless the QB's a sure-fire talent.  Then you should fire away.   Sadly, the guy Elway is most linked to since last year (Herbert), is far from that.

The thing is, though, the one thing Elway can control right now, is getting more on-field information on Lock.    That's indisputable.   The "false-positve/negative" narrative is pure spin - because while there is risk in a small sample size, having no info is even less helpful.   And ironically, that argument actually points to why pulling the chute now is a better idea in terms of evaluation - the false positive/negative argument gets smaller with a larger sample size.   

If the false positive/negative concern is so great, as long as Lock has the playbook down to run the O, then it's time to let him sink/swim.   And we should expect him to sink early on.   But how he progresses by the DET/OAK game, that will give way more info on where he's at.   He struggles in DET/OAK after having had 2-3 games in tougher environments, I'm sorry, but you can't break a QB in 2-3 games that wasn't going to break already.   I get that you can break a QB with bad OL play over a long period of time (we saw it with Eli, and we're seeing with Rivers now), but 2-3 games more isn't adding a critical amount of risk.   

We know Lock is going to get his chance - the Q is just when.  Here's hoping to sooner rather than later.

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Well, looks like D-Mac was wrong about Lock. Shocking to most here I know. 

From the mouthpiece himself:

Quote

 

Understand, the difficulty of the decision is that playing Lock does involve some adjustment to what had been the team’s big-picture plans. The Broncos were hoping to essentially have Lock redshirt his rookie season, especially after he tore up his right passing thumb during the preseason. But then veteran starter Joe Flacco went down with a neck injury at the season’s halfway point.

The next plan was for inexperienced backup Brandon Allen to play well enough to hold off the public mob desiring Lock.

 

Like I've been saying, the plan all along has been to play the long game with Lock.

But when talk radio has 12 hours a day to fill with Broncos QB talk, hosts have to come up with something.  

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58 minutes ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

Well, looks like D-Mac was wrong about Lock. Shocking to most here I know. 

From the mouthpiece himself:

Like I've been saying, the plan all along has been to play the long game with Lock.

But when talk radio has 12 hours a day to fill with Broncos QB talk, hosts have to come up with something.  

Man, what a pitiful strategy.  Plan A is Joe Flacco who was abysmal and literally the worst fit for this teams offense Elway could’ve targeted and the team traded a 4th round pick for him.  Plan B is to have Brandon Allen (a 27 year old journeyman with no regular season experience) play well enough that it keeps Lock off the field.  This may be Elway’s worst mismanagement of the QB position since taking over and he’s been mismanaging that position since 2015.  

We don’t need anyone to tell us that Denver doesn’t want to play Lock this year.  All you have to do is look at how they handled him.  IR’d him on a 4-6 week injury, then waited to activate him off IR.  Instead of giving us the “plan” Elway himself needs to come out and just flat out let this fan base know that they don’t think Lock is ready and he will not be playing this year and that because of this the organization will again be in the market for a stop gap QB to be the Broncos starter for another season or 2 until Lock develops.

Edited by germ-x
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7 minutes ago, germ-x said:

Man, what a pitiful strategy.  Plan A is Joe Flacco who was abysmal and the team traded a 4th round pick for him.  Plan B is to have Brandon Allen (a 27 year old journeyman with no regular season experience) play well enough that it keeps Lock off the field.  This may be Elway’s worst mismanagement of the QB position since taking over and he’s been mismanaging that position since 2015.  

We don’t need anyone to tell us that Denver doesn’t want to play Lock this year.  All you have to do is look at how they handled him.  IR’d him on a 4-6 week injury, then waited to activate him off IR.  Instead of giving us the “plan” Elway himself needs to come out and just flat out let this fan base know that they don’t think Lock is ready and he will not be playing this year and that because of this the organization will again be in the market for a stop gap QB to be the Broncos starter for another season or 2 until Lock develops.

The plan all along was to “redshirt” Lock this year. His injury didn’t help matters as he didn’t even get backup/scout team reps in practice. That’s not a flaw in the plan but an unfortunate, unforeseen occurrence.

Relying on Flacco, who has been washed up for at least a couple years before he even came here, was the mistake. Thinking this was a playoff roster with Flacco, was a mistake. I’m not sure this is a playoff roster with the 2013 version of Peyton Manning. 

As I’ve tried to explain countless times now, the organization needs to be in “win now” mode because of business problems and Joe Ellis’ desperate desire to hold onto power for long as possible. That has had a disastrous effect on the on-field product. 

Now, the plan was not perfectly conceived, but now the decision needs to be made. Lock needs to play, starting this week, and an evaluation needs to be made.

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1 minute ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

The plan all along was to “redshirt” Lock this year. His injury didn’t help matters as he didn’t even get backup/scout team reps in practice. That’s not a flaw in the plan but an unfortunate, unforeseen occurrence.

Relying on Flacco, who has been washed up for at least a couple years before he even came here, was the mistake. Thinking this was a playoff roster with Flacco, was a mistake. I’m not sure this is a playoff roster with the 2013 version of Peyton Manning. 

As I’ve tried to explain countless times now, the organization needs to be in “win now” mode because of business problems and Joe Ellis’ desperate desire to hold onto power for long as possible. That has had a disastrous effect on the on-field product. 

Now, the plan was not perfectly conceived, but now the decision needs to be made. Lock needs to play, starting this week, and an evaluation needs to be made.

Agreed.  I mean we all knew the plan all along was for Lock to sit.  They didn’t trade a 4th for Flacco for him to be the backup QB.

Injuries you can’t predict.  Don’t fault Elway and company for that, however, Denver went out of their way to keep Lock off the practice field as much as possible.  IR’ing him initially was to compete now, but then waiting to reactivate him is head scratching and quite frankly unacceptable decision making by Elway and company. 

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Well the time is coming closer - at very worst, the fact that it's a 50-50 call tells us Lock's time is coming close.

 

Someone other than the prior guys - start a GD Week 13 thread!  Doesn't have to be a big thing - we all know it's going to be Lock, and our future, less about vs. LAC lol.

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On 11/26/2019 at 7:48 AM, Broncofan said:

Our current GM would probably draft said mobile QB....and then fit him into a drop-back scheme that minimizes his skills.

So yeah...I'm just hoping Elway takes a pass.   If Lock is a hit, so be it, and great.  If Lock is a whiff, let it be Elway's last kick at the can with early draft capital.   We all know that 2020 is safe for Elway, but the seat's finally start to warm up, nothing is set in stone for 2021+...   I'd rather let new blood start fresh for 2021 at QB if this all goes to h*** in a handbasket next year.

I don’t see how they go into the spring FA/draft period with the FO identical to what it is today. Some kind of a change needs to be made. 

Today on GMFB they were talking about how Jerry Jones, who owns a team that is in first place, is having to answer questions and explain things to luxury suite owners and corporate sponsors and that that alone may force his hand with Garrett sans a deep playoff run. Now, Dallas and us are different but I’m sure Ellis is having to answer similar questions (hopefully with the fire rightly trained at least partially in his direction) and thus even change for change’s sake is going to have to occur. 

Sandy Clough suggested Elway steps down as GM, remains as Football Ops President with final say, and the team brings in Adam Peters from SF as GM. Everyone here knows, trusts and respects Peters and he has experience building a team structured the way we want ours (Shanahan approach/influence). Elway would save face but the team would gain a serious voice in the room. 

Whether that exact scenarios comes to pass or not, I think something has to be done if for nothing other than PR sake. And let’s be honest, with Ellis in charge, PR has always taken precedence here. 

Edited by AnAngryAmerican
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1 hour ago, Broncofan said:

The other thing to look for - James playing....maybe at LT?
 

 

Either way, James is a better fit at RT for 2020+.....cough *draft LT early* cough.....

So, what do you do if at our pick the CB from Ohio State is on the board along with Wirfs? 

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