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Inside Linebacker ... IT IS TIME


TheOnlyThing

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2 minutes ago, Outpost31 said:

The only thing he brings up is mediocre inside linebackers who are fast but not very good.  Kwon Alexander is not some great ILB.  He's actually pretty average.  Must be nice when 4 first round defensive linemen keep you clean. 

He simultaneously rags on Lowry/Lancaster AND Martinez just like he ****s on Thompson while also crapping on McCarthy.

Lowry/Lancaster sucking does not mean Martinez gets a pass.

All 3 need to be upgraded and I'm perfectly fine with the DL being the top priority (just like Mac needed to be upgraded at HC even though the principal problem in GB was the former GM).

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5 minutes ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Lowry/Lancaster sucking does not mean Martinez gets a pass.

All 3 need to be upgraded and I'm perfectly fine with the DL being the top priority (just like Mac needed to be upgraded at HC even though the principal problem in GB was the former GM).

Nobody is saying give them a pass.  But if your engine isn't working, do you throw out the entire car or do you replace the part you know that needs to be replaced?  DL play was a bigger issue.  If your DL is doing their job, the LBs should be plug 'n play.

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2 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Nobody is saying give them a pass.  But if your engine isn't working, do you throw out the entire car or do you replace the part you know that needs to be replaced?  DL play was a bigger issue.  If your DL is doing their job, the LBs should be plug 'n play.

He’s never going to get it.  

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4 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Nobody is saying give them a pass.  But if your engine isn't working, do you throw out the entire car or do you replace the part you know that needs to be replaced?  DL play was a bigger issue.  If your DL is doing their job, the LBs should be plug 'n play.

Here we will just have to disagree.

As bad as he was, with admittedly poor DLine play in front of him, against SF's running attack yesterday, I shudder to think about how bad he'd look against Mahomes, Kelce and all that speed in KC.

There simply is no way to hide an ILB like Martinez against top offenses.

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1 minute ago, TheOnlyThing said:

Here we will just have to disagree.

As bad as he was, with admittedly poor DLine play in front of him, against SF's running attack yesterday, I shudder to think about how bad he'd look against Mahomes, Kelce and all that speed in KC.

There simply is no way to hide an ILB like Martinez against top offenses.

Hate to burst your bubble, but there aren't very many LBs who are sturdy enough in run support and going to hold up in coverage.  Those kind of guys don't grow on trees.  And one of the best just retired this offseason.

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Just now, CWood21 said:

Hate to burst your bubble, but there aren't very many LBs who are sturdy enough in run support and going to hold up in coverage.  Those kind of guys don't grow on trees.  And one of the best just retired this offseason.

Don't disagree that top ILBs are hard to come by. GB certainly has not had one in forever.

But Blake Martinez is most assuredly not a top ILB and it is time for Gute to look elsewhere to fill that void. 

One of the few "positives' from yesterday's beat down is that no one seems to be denying Martinez's (or Lowry's or Lancaster's) deficiencies any more ... other than the few remaining loyalists who have decided to die on Mt. Blake.

This game also laid bare the Packers’ talent deficiencies inside. Blake Martinez is reliably healthy and the coaches seem to like his acumen as an on-field director, but he lacks the speed necessary to close space on the edge, gets tied up in the trash between tackles, and often absorbs the tackle rather than deliver it.

https://packerswire.usatoday.com/2020/01/19/3-takeaways-from-packers-season-ending-loss-vs-49ers-in-nfc-title-game/

 

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The issue is you are making Martinez out to be some black hole type problem. Is he worth a high end contract? No, but he's a mid level starter caliber LB. No matter how bad the D looked in SF, If the OL are getting clean runs at the LB, they are going to get blown up in the run game. Now the Packers also need ANOTHER off ball LB to play the other spot too.

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19 hours ago, CWood21 said:

Hate to burst your bubble, but there aren't very many LBs who are sturdy enough in run support and going to hold up in coverage.  Those kind of guys don't grow on trees.  And one of the best just retired this offseason.

Agree but Martinez is going to want/get more than 10 million a year.  Take that money and get at least 2 DL that aren't jags.  For this team to get better they can't go into next year without at least 2 more talented guys on the DL.  Anything less than that and I don't care who is our interior LB is, the run D will suck.  Get those guys ... if Pettine can't figure out how to use them better than this last bunch .. goodbye.  

Edited by coachbuns
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2 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

Agree but Martinez is going to want/get more than 10 million a year.  Take that money and get at least 2 DL that aren't jags.  For this team to get better they can't go into next year without at least 2 more talented guys on the DL.  Anything less than that and I don't care who is our interior LB is, the run D will suck.

Yeah, if he wants 10 mil you thank him for his contributions to the Packers and move on.  We need more athletic linebackers who can cover and have the athletic skills to get around blockers.  Beef up the Dline and it makes life for the linebackers much easier.

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18 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

Agree but Martinez is going to want/get more than 10 million a year.  Take that money and get at least 2 DL that aren't jags.  For this team to get better they can't go into next year without at least 2 more talented guys on the DL.  Anything less than that and I don't care who is our interior LB is, the run D will suck.  Get those guys ... if Pettine can't figure out how to use them better than this last bunch .. goodbye.  

ok, but your math is wrong. 10 mil isn't going to get you 2 DL better than JAGs in FA. And then you still need to replace Martinez, and add another off ball LB too.

I agree that top number is WAY too high, but it's not as simple as you make it sound. There is a number that works and it's higher than you'd probably like.

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26 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

I call this sequence of images: The total abject failure to keep your ILBs clean. Alternatively known as the second quarter.

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Note that this is just from the second quarter.

 

Fix the damn defensive line.

All DL are engaged in blocks and some of them double teamed. I'm not sure what more you can ask from them. I just think the gap responsibility is confusing for them. All year long all we heard from Pettine and LaFleur is "need to maintain our gap responsibilities." That shouldnt be something you hammer home, it's like second nature, I have this gap. Getting blown out by a better OL is one thing, not going to your gap is another. It shouldn't be complicated. The whole thing Pettine's done with his LBs in the past where EDGE players crash inside and ILBs loop out to contain is just dumb. A lot of his run package is dumb and I wouldn't keep him on unless I had a heart to heart with him and he agreed to spend the off-season in kind of a McCarthy "reflection" period and come to mini camp with some better methods for run fits.

Lowry and Lancaster are not good enough, I do agree. I'm just not sure if you put two league average DL next to Clark like a Jarran Reed, that things get much better with this system.

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28 minutes ago, spilltray said:

ok, but your math is wrong. 10 mil isn't going to get you 2 DL better than JAGs in FA. And then you still need to replace Martinez, and add another off ball LB too.

I agree that top number is WAY too high, but it's not as simple as you make it sound. There is a number that works and it's higher than you'd probably like.

I totally get 10 mil won't get 2 guys but it'll sure as heck help get 1 very good one.  Take the money those jags are getting now, put together 10 mil (or more) from Martinez going elsewhere and it's manageable.  If they can keep Martinez for less than that, fine.  They still need 2 better than jag guys for this team to improve.  They can mamby pamby along and waste what's left of Rodgers last few years or put forth a little more than normal expenditures for a super bowl run.  You just saw what a very good D line can do.  There are those on this forum who think plug and play inside lb's are fine if your DL is lights out.  You either have great  DL and jag LB or jag DL and great LB.  Which one is best is open for debate.  One thing for sure … can't go on the way it is. 

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