WindyCity Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: It sure seems the fan base is far higher on Bars than the team. He couldn’t even get reps at the end of a lost season over an established JAG in Larsen. If he wasn’t a ND grad I’m not sure anyone would look at him any more favorably than they did Jordan Morgan. We need to look at Bars as a backup and competition for someone in class. The fact that he could not get reps at RG late in the season is pretty damning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 44 minutes ago, AZBearsFan said: It sure seems the fan base is far higher on Bars than the team. He couldn’t even get reps at the end of a lost season over an established JAG in Larsen. If he wasn’t a ND grad I’m not sure anyone would look at him any more favorably than they did Jordan Morgan. I said unknown. He looked to have some ability in preseason ball. He was our best preseason OL by far ( I realize starters didn't play). I don't care that he went to ND. But yeah I guess I am higher on him then 2019 Bears coaches. Whoever was making those calls. I can't explain why he didn't get run in regular season when guys went down. He outplayed guys in front of him in practices I saw. Both in drills and in pre season games. Some coaches just don't trust young guys or whatever the reason. They trotted Long out there when he couldn't move and didn't pull him from games he was falling down in. That wasn't brilliant. When I coach if you win majority of your reps relative to other guys then you should be the starter. Not how many years you played in the league or what your last name is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 They started Shaheen and Burton too and they didn't do penis in practice. I have defended Nagy on a number of things, but continually trotting out non practice or early season poor performers in games was really annoying to me in 2019. I understand the QB position, but the other positions - best player should play. And to be honest Daniel and Fray weren't outperforming MT in practice. Team played better when replacement RG, replacement UDFA TE and replacement TE started getting game reps. They didn't play good, but better than what was happening before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) 47 minutes ago, WindyCity said: I think we need to be patient with Floyd. Real competition will put too much pressure on him. Other pass rushers have taken a long time to develop. LOL To be fair people were being patient with Floyd in last year offseason and he is a year ahead of Mitch in draft class. I think another bad year from Mitch and just as many people will be ready to move on from Mitch as are ready to move on from Floyd. I think the general fan base is mostly already gone on Mitch. Forum has been a bit more patient and realistic of situation. Also Floyd came into league at like 23 or 24. He kind of is what he is at this point. Edited February 12, 2020 by dll2000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, dll2000 said: LOL To be fair people were being patient with Floyd in last year offseason and he is a year ahead of Mitch in draft class. I think another bad year from Mitch and just as many people will be ready to move on from Mitch as are ready to move on from Floyd. I think the general fan base is mostly already gone on Mitch. Forum has been a bit more patient and realistic of situation. Patient and realistic at not synonymous. Selective patience? Floyd is actually good at stuff. He just isn’t good at what we thought he would be good at. Edited February 12, 2020 by WindyCity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 Floyd is highest paid run defender and flat coverage player in league. About the best you can say about his pass rush is he occupies one OL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Floyd is highest paid run defender and flat coverage player in league. About the best you can say about his pass rush is he occupies one OL. He produces moderate amounts of pressure. If we are patient, he will become the pass rusher we have expected. Edited February 12, 2020 by WindyCity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 minute ago, WindyCity said: Patient and realistic at not synonymous. Selective patience? Floyd is actually good at stuff. He just isn’t good at what we thought he would be good at. Realistic in sense that bringing in an expensive old QB who used to be real good or an expensive middling veteran another team can't wait to be rid of is probably not going to take this team to super bowl. So Mitch is likely to be guy regardless. Maybe, possibly, light comes on. Not likely, but is what it is. If not QB search begins next year with a first round draft pick in hand to go with whatever FA market is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 minute ago, WindyCity said: He produces moderate amounts of pressure. If we are patient, he will become the pass rusher we have expected. I thought you were being sarcastic. And trying to sub Floyd for Mitch. Was I wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, WindyCity said: Floyd is actually good at stuff. He just isn’t good at what we thought he would be good at. He is good at stuff a 4-3 WLB needs to do. He is a liability in a 3-4 without creativity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 19 hours ago, The_Romen said: He's better... But not tons better. He's also a different sort of player. The most important difference? He's the type of player Floyd SHOULD be. 3 hours ago, dll2000 said: I think simply signing best FA OT largely would go a long way to fixing the line. Guys can be plugged into guard spots. OTs are hard to find. If they can get a good tackle, they really absolutely have to. 2 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: It sure seems the fan base is far higher on Bars than the team. He couldn’t even get reps at the end of a lost season over an established JAG in Larsen. If he wasn’t a ND grad I’m not sure anyone would look at him any more favorably than they did Jordan Morgan. It could be they're doing the smart thing, and grooming him to be a tackle. No reason to muck up any progress with a position switch. 57 minutes ago, WindyCity said: If we are patient, he will become the pass rusher we have expected. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 12, 2020 Author Share Posted February 12, 2020 1 hour ago, dll2000 said: I thought you were being sarcastic. And trying to sub Floyd for Mitch. Was I wrong? 100% I don’t think Floyd is ever going to he a good pass rusher. You can extrapolate from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 This is what I would do with Floyd -I would try and extend him for 8-9 season and lower his cap hit by 5-6 million this season. -I would put that money into a #3 OLB or TE/RG and free me up to draft an OLB in round 2. If he is not interested in an extension, I pull the option, and let him test the market. Ready to match reasonable deals at 8-9 million. Who knows maybe he has a weak market and you can get him at 6-7. If it isn’t going to work out I pair a 6-7 million vet like Nassib or Addison with a 2nd round pick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF-N72EX Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 7 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: I’d be interested to see a video for sure. The Athletic posted their top 100 FAs and had Golden 69th overall. They noted that Golden produced a sack or QB hit on 8.3% of his pass rush snaps which was 18th among 172 qualifiers. Gimme that opposite Mack. Floyd gives us very little of consequence off the edge. The “Floyd already knows the system” thing totally misses me. 90% of playing 3-4 EDGE is going to be fundamentally the same anywhere he goes, and like I said before I want my EDGE players to be pass rushers first and am comparatively unconcerned with how well they cover TEs and RBs. I very much value speeding up the clock in the QB’s head over coverage ability when it comes to my pass rushers, though I know my philosophy on that isn’t the same as everyone’s. As to Golden’s potential salary I don’t think he’s going to totally break the bank per se. I think he’s far more likely to get a Preston Smith deal ($13M AAV) than a Z’Darius Smith deal ($16.5M AAV) and maybe even a little less given what else is also likely to hit the market, but in either case the 2020 cap cost is almost certain to be significantly less than that of Floyd’s. I expect the cap to go WAY up in 2021 and that we will have some other big contracts coming off the books to offset some of the future cost in a multi-year deal anyway. All if this is of course speculative anyway - I don’t expect Pace will pull Floyd’s option even though I think he should which would make all of this moot anyway. Golden is a high-motor pass-rusher with a limited move-set. Which sounds to me like another guy I know who is much better against the run. He would be a downgrade at in or around the same price, imo. But you're right, I do think this a moot point as well. But hey, it's the offseason. Here is what I was talking about with his sacks. Turns out I don't need to all that. Sack #1 vs Giants (rookie QB in his 2nd game) 1st Q 2nd and 6 (Coverage sack combined w/ QB holding the ball)Bills in a spread formation with 10 personnel meaning no extra blockers. The defense was in a nickel zone coverage with 3 down lineman overloading the QB's left side with Golden lining up at wide nine on the far right side leaving him in 1 on 1 in space. Jones' first read is to his left but they are all covered so he looks to his right where he has Beasley open on an in route but couldn't pull the trigger. Golden takes a wide-angle and uses no moves (strictly speed) which still takes him 3 seconds to get to the QB. Rememeber one of Floyd's 2 sacks against the Packers last year....same design. Except for Floyd didn't rely upon his speed. Sack #2 vs TB (Winston) 1st Q 1st and 10 (scheme blitz/QB mistake)Cover-1 man free blitz. This is a 6-man rush where Golden stunts to the inside and comes in free untouched along with Ogletree on the outside -- they both got there at the same time. Again, Golden uses no moves to get the QB and any player on the field can get to the QB untouched. This sack was more about the OL's being overwhelmed, Arians poor design, and Winston's lack of ability to read defenses than it was anything else. Running a 7-step drop against a free blitz is a terrible idea. Winston should've checked out in pre-snap. Sack #3 vs TB (Winston) 3rd Q 3rd and 8 (coverage sack if I've ever seen one)Winston has nowhere to throw the ball and hold onto too long. Takes Golden 5 seconds to get to the QB. Also, notice what happens when he has to use more than his just speed. 1/2 sack vs WAS (Rookie QB) 4thQ 3rd and 10 (coverage sack)Similar to Winston, haskins has nowhere to throw the ball and holds onto the ball too long. Takes Golden 5 seconds to get him. Sack #4 (Cousins) 3rd Q 1st and 10I'll give him credit for this. But I will say that it was a 5 man blitz and again he only used his speed and it was 1 on 1 against a TE (Rudolph). 1/2 sack vs NE (Brady) 1st Q 1st and 10Same as above, I'll give him credit but it was a 5 man-blitz again against one of the worst OL's in the league last year. He did however used more than just speed this time to collapse the pocket so kudos for that. Also, watch his lackluster pass-rushing where he looks lost during his fumble recovery. 1/2 sack vs DET (Stafford) (coverage sack/QB mistake) 4th Q 3rd and 8Supposed to be a pick play over the short middle but all 3 targets were covered. He does generate pressure but yeah, I'm not giving him credit for touching a QB who falls to the ground because he trips over his own feet. Sack #6 vs Jets (Darnold) 2nd Q 3rd and 18Another cover-1 man free blitz. This time it's 7 rushers instead of 6 (since the RB stayed in to block) and another play where Golden comes in untouched. Sack #7 vs Bears (Mitch)2nd Q 3rd and 10His first fully earned sack as he just beat the hell out of Leno. Sack #8 vs Philly (wentz) 1st Q 3rd and 13Another untouched sack. 1/2 sack vs Miami (Fitzpatrick) 4th Q 3rd and 5Another cover-1 man free blitz (6 rushers). Another untouched sack. Truth be told, he wasn't even the first one to the QB. Ogletree was.1/2 sack vs Redskins (Haskins) 1st sack was all Lorenzo Carter and should not have had to split it with anyone. He had Haskins and the ref blew the play dead before Golden was even there. The 2nd 1/2 sack nobody was open downfield but I'll give him credit for generating pressure. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 43 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said: Golden is a high-motor pass-rusher with a limited move-set. Which sounds to me like another guy I know who is much better against the run. He would be a downgrade at in or around the same price, imo. But you're right, I do think this a moot point as well. But hey, it's the offseason. Here is what I was talking about with his sacks. Turns out I don't need to all that. Sack #1 vs Giants (rookie QB in his 2nd game) 1st Q 2nd and 6 (Coverage sack combined w/ QB holding the ball)Bills in a spread formation with 10 personnel meaning no extra blockers. The defense was in a nickel zone coverage with 3 down lineman overloading the QB's left side with Golden lining up at wide nine on the far right side leaving him in 1 on 1 in space. Jones' first read is to his left but they are all covered so he looks to his right where he has Beasley open on an in route but couldn't pull the trigger. Golden takes a wide-angle and uses no moves (strictly speed) which still takes him 3 seconds to get to the QB. Rememeber one of Floyd's 2 sacks against the Packers last year....same design. Except for Floyd didn't rely upon his speed. Sack #2 vs TB (Winston) 1st Q 1st and 10 (scheme blitz/QB mistake)Cover-1 man free blitz. This is a 6-man rush where Golden stunts to the inside and comes in free untouched along with Ogletree on the outside -- they both got there at the same time. Again, Golden uses no moves to get the QB and any player on the field can get to the QB untouched. This sack was more about the OL's being overwhelmed, Arians poor design, and Winston's lack of ability to read defenses than it was anything else. Running a 7-step drop against a free blitz is a terrible idea. Winston should've checked out in pre-snap. Sack #3 vs TB (Winston) 3rd Q 3rd and 8 (coverage sack if I've ever seen one)Winston has nowhere to throw the ball and hold onto too long. Takes Golden 5 seconds to get to the QB. Also, notice what happens when he has to use more than his just speed. 1/2 sack vs WAS (Rookie QB) 4thQ 3rd and 10 (coverage sack)Similar to Winston, haskins has nowhere to throw the ball and holds onto the ball too long. Takes Golden 5 seconds to get him. Sack #4 (Cousins) 3rd Q 1st and 10I'll give him credit for this. But I will say that it was a 5 man blitz and again he only used his speed and it was 1 on 1 against a TE (Rudolph). 1/2 sack vs NE (Brady) 1st Q 1st and 10Same as above, I'll give him credit but it was a 5 man-blitz again against one of the worst OL's in the league last year. He did however used more than just speed this time to collapse the pocket so kudos for that. Also, watch his lackluster pass-rushing where he looks lost during his fumble recovery. 1/2 sack vs DET (Stafford) (coverage sack/QB mistake) 4th Q 3rd and 8Supposed to be a pick play over the short middle but all 3 targets were covered. He does generate pressure but yeah, I'm not giving him credit for touching a QB who falls to the ground because he trips over his own feet. Sack #6 vs Jets (Darnold) 2nd Q 3rd and 18Another cover-1 man free blitz. This time it's 7 rushers instead of 6 (since the RB stayed in to block) and another play where Golden comes in untouched. Sack #7 vs Bears (Mitch)2nd Q 3rd and 10His first fully earned sack as he just beat the hell out of Leno. Sack #8 vs Philly (wentz) 1st Q 3rd and 13Another untouched sack. 1/2 sack vs Miami (Fitzpatrick) 4th Q 3rd and 5Another cover-1 man free blitz (6 rushers). Another untouched sack. Truth be told, he wasn't even the first one to the QB. Ogletree was.1/2 sack vs Redskins (Haskins) 1st sack was all Lorenzo Carter and should not have had to split it with anyone. He had Haskins and the ref blew the play dead before Golden was even there. The 2nd 1/2 sack nobody was open downfield but I'll give him credit for generating pressure. Appreciate your posting this and for putting in the time to assemble it. Consider me less excited by Golden. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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