Heinz D. Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 hour ago, WindyCity said: Ready to match reasonable deals at 8-9 million. Who knows maybe he has a weak market and you can get him at 6-7. I would be stunned if another 3-4 team is willing to pay him the big bucks to not fill a proper role on their team, either. He might be able to get $8-$9 million out of a 4-3 team. Could easily end up the pricetag settles at 6-7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, WindyCity said: Ready to match reasonable deals at 8-9 million. Who knows maybe he has a weak market and you can get him at 6-7. How does one justify paying Floyd $8-9M a season let alone his option price knowing he’s a non-asset as a pass rusher? What is he providing that’s any more valuable than what Sam Acho did a few years back in the same role? Per Pro-Football-Reference.com: 2017 Acho (16 games, 12 starts): 45 total tackles, 18 QB hits, 3 sacks, 1 FF, 1 PD 2019 Floyd (16 games, 16 starts): 40 total tackles, 12 QB hits, 3 sacks, 0 FF, 1 PD Acho’s production was effectively the same, and he didn’t have the benefit of playing opposite Khalil Mack. 29-year old Acho played for $855,000 in 2017. We got 2019 Leonard Floyd production from a journeyman guy playing for the league minimum! Acho, for what it’s worth, was rewarded after 2017 with a big raise: he signed a 2-year $5.5M extension in the 2018 offseason. Edited February 13, 2020 by AZBearsFan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBHalas Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 16 hours ago, WindyCity said: They cannot afford to invest 12-15 million at OT. They already have 18 million at the position. I don't think a FA OT is coming simply because they cannot afford to spend another 10-15 million on the OL. You never throw good money after bad. They are going to reinvest in the line with draft picks and maybe a serviceable affordable vet for RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 hours ago, AZBearsFan said: How does one justify paying Floyd $8-9M a season let alone his option price knowing he’s a non-asset as a pass rusher? What is he providing that’s any more valuable than what Sam Acho did a few years back in the same role? Per Pro-Football-Reference.com: 2017 Acho (16 games, 12 starts): 45 total tackles, 18 QB hits, 3 sacks, 1 FF, 1 PD 2019 Floyd (16 games, 16 starts): 40 total tackles, 12 QB hits, 3 sacks, 0 FF, 1 PD Acho’s production was effectively the same, and he didn’t have the benefit of playing opposite Khalil Mack. 29-year old Acho played for $855,000 in 2017. We got 2019 Leonard Floyd production from a journeyman guy playing for the league minimum! Acho, for what it’s worth, was rewarded after 2017 with a big raise: he signed a 2-year $5.5M extension in the 2018 offseason. Those stats do not cover everything that is happening on a football field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 55 minutes ago, GBHalas said: I don't think a FA OT is coming simply because they cannot afford to spend another 10-15 million on the OL. You never throw good money after bad. They are going to reinvest in the line with draft picks and maybe a serviceable affordable vet for RG Agreed. They will sign a teir 2 RG and then they have to draft there way out of the OL issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 million a season puts Floyd in the Nigel Bradham and Trent Murphy salary range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBHalas Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 3 hours ago, WindyCity said: Agreed. They will sign a teir 2 RG and then they have to draft there way out of the OL issues. I guy I'm looking at that's tier 2 would be Xavier Su-a Filo from Dallas. Minimal money and is serviceable to compete for the guard spot, and become a swing interior person if he doesn't start Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 4 hours ago, WindyCity said: Those stats do not cover everything that is happening on a football field. Do explain where the extra $8M is justified. You gotta give me something because Floyd’s stat sheet says he’s just a guy, and we’re watching the same games and much of the time Floyd is invisible. He’s certainly not a difference maker or a cornerstone player. Given Floyd or a journeyman like Acho on level ground I’m taking Floyd but not at 5x or more the salary. Show me where he’s that good at anything. Please. Help me understand the double standard here. Why does Floyd with his multiple years of replacement level play at a premium position continue to get the olive branch? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 1 minute ago, AZBearsFan said: Do explain where the extra $8M is justified. You gotta give me something because Floyd’s stat sheet says he’s just a guy, and we’re watching the same games and much of the time Floyd is invisible. He’s certainly not a difference maker or a cornerstone player. Given Floyd or a journeyman like Acho on level ground I’m taking Floyd but not at 5x or more the salary. Show me where he’s that good at anything. Please. Help me understand the double standard here. Why does Floyd with his multiple years of replacement level play at a premium position continue to get the olive branch? He is a good run defender and good in coverage. And he is not nearly as useless a pass rusher as you make him out to be. In fact most games he is not invisible. He is a very active player even if his stat line is not what you would want. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 Acho having a good year while making no money really does not have an effect on the market of another player. If the Bears could guarantee that year from an Acho level player for the vet minimum they would probably jump at it. Shaq Barrett had 19.5 sacks while making 4.5 million which is 5x less than Khalil Mack made to have 10. Does that mean that Mack is one of the worst values in the NFL or does it mean that Shaq had an outlier good season at his pay rate. We can find outliers at every position and price point. Players who are roughly in Floyd's ability and production range make about 8 million a season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 A handful of stats are not going to tell the story of anyone on defense. You do not get a stat for setting the edge or covering a RB out of the backfield. I agree his value is limited by his inability to sack the QB, but he still has value to the team and the defense. You can find a cheaper player who may match him in tackles, but if he is blowing contain or getting knocked back on the other plays that player is a major downgrade despite similar stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBHalas Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Floyd's comp especially in this defense is Jarret Johnson of the Ravens back in the early 00's. Look at Johnson's stats and they are equivolent to Floyd's and Johnson was a highly paid OLB. Windy is right about 8 mil is the comp for Floyd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindyCity Posted February 13, 2020 Author Share Posted February 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, GBHalas said: Floyd's comp especially in this defense is Jarret Johnson of the Ravens back in the early 00's. Look at Johnson's stats and they are equivolent to Floyd's and Johnson was a highly paid OLB. Windy is right about 8 mil is the comp for Floyd. That is who I was thinking of as well. Dirty work type player across from a HOF pass rusher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBHalas Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 Just now, WindyCity said: That is who I was thinking of as well. Dirty work type player across from a HOF pass rusher. Great minds think alike lol 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZBearsFan Posted February 13, 2020 Share Posted February 13, 2020 18 minutes ago, WindyCity said: A handful of stats are not going to tell the story of anyone on defense. You do not get a stat for setting the edge or covering a RB out of the backfield. I agree his value is limited by his inability to sack the QB, but he still has value to the team and the defense. You can find a cheaper player who may match him in tackles, but if he is blowing contain or getting knocked back on the other plays that player is a major downgrade despite similar stats. We’re gonna have to agree to disagree on this. I clearly think finding a run game responsible edge defender who chips in about one sack a month is easier to find than you do. I look at Floyd’s pass defense contribution, which I also see as significantly overstated btw, as a nice to have thing. The stuff he’s lacking is far more need to have stuff in our scheme for me. The only difference between Floyd and a vet FA making at or near the minimum who’s run game sound is what he provides in pass defense. People talk about his pass defense “prowess” like he’s lining up over slot receivers in press man and that’s just not the case. Top receiving RBs and TEs are predominantly being shadowed by safeties, corners or even our ILBs. He’s not some sort of super unique shutdown pass defender. Floyd isn’t so much better in his coverage responsibilities than the replacement level veteran FA 3-4 EDGE to justify a salary anywhere near what you’re willing to pay him IMO, especially when you also factor in the added pressure that his lacking skill as an edge rusher places on those around him. That Floyd can pretty consistently be kept off the QB by a TE or RB on a single block means every other pass rusher’s job is significantly more difficult. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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