Raiders WR Hunter Renfrow breaks rib and punctures lung

[y*so*blu]

"Just knocked the wind out of me."  He must be one tough son of a gun. Football sure ain't ballet. Hope he gets well soon.

[Oregon Ducks]

There's a dude named Bless? lol

 

[Kiwibrown]

9 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

How do you even diagnose a punctured lung? Does it require an MRI or something?

Chest xray i think, rhe air shows up on the wrong places iirc

[N4L]

Lol some of the people in this thread must not have played football. 

He was in pain, but he had the adrenaline flowing and wanted to finish the game. The clip showed of the play where he caught the ball and made a few guys miss ... He couldn't make that play today if you asked him to, but his brain was literally shutting off the nerve receptors to that part of his body as a biological response to the pain for a short period of time

That doesn't mean it's some great conspiracy to have players play through injuries. Dont take this as the raiders don't need to evaluate their medical staff, because they absolutely do, especially considering that their rookie SS finished a game with a torn labrum, but this sort of thing comes with the territory to some extent.

[Slateman]

15 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

How do you even diagnose a punctured lung? Does it require an MRI or something?

Confirmation does. But spotting it (or that there is something seriously different from getting the wind knocked out of you) is fairly simple:

• Chest pain, particularly after breathing in or out
• SOB/Difficulty breathing/Abnormal or haggard breathing
• Rapid heart rate
• Pale skin/blue lips
• Fatigue

 

That's basic level medical care diagnosis. I wouldn't know for certain that a person had broken ribs and a punctured lung, but I would treat it like that. First thing I'm looking for is flail chest and after that, we're going to the ED.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Slateman

[Dome]

2 hours ago, Slateman said:

Confirmation does. But spotting it (or that there is something seriously different from getting the wind knocked out of you) is fairly simple:

• Chest pain, particularly after breathing in or out
• SOB/Difficulty breathing/Abnormal or haggard breathing
• Rapid heart rate
• Pale skin/blue lips
• Fatigue

 

That's basic level medical care diagnosis. I wouldn't know for certain that a person had broken ribs and a punctured lung, but I would treat it like that. First thing I'm looking for is flail chest and after that, we're going to the ED.

Good post.

I'll say though, the 1st three would be common with a player who took a big shot to the torso even if they didn't break anything. Sounds in line with "got the wind knocked out of him." Obviously the longer the symptoms show the more likely it is more than just the wind getting knocked out, but right off the bat they can look really similar.

And depending on how much the lung was still working (if at all) you might not have a lack of oxygen turning him pale/blue either. He's a professional athlete that trains every day. His body is very good at spreading oxygen rich blood throughout itself even with just one lung working at full force, some of the side effects from lack of oxygen might not be like you'd expect in a "regular" patient.

Someone in the thread said a punctured lung can be life threatening, this is true. Sometimes a punctured lung can heal on its own with no medical treatment at all, as well.

[Slateman]

1 hour ago, Dome said:

Good post.

I'll say though, the 1st three would be common with a player who took a big shot to the torso even if they didn't break anything. Sounds in line with "got the wind knocked out of him." Obviously the longer the symptoms show the more likely it is more than just the wind getting knocked out, but right off the bat they can look really similar.

And depending on how much the lung was still working (if at all) you might not have a lack of oxygen turning him pale/blue either. He's a professional athlete that trains every day. His body is very good at spreading oxygen rich blood throughout itself even with just one lung working at full force, some of the side effects from lack of oxygen might not be like you'd expect in a "regular" patient.

Someone in the thread said a punctured lung can be life threatening, this is true. Sometimes a punctured lung can heal on its own with no medical treatment at all, as well.

There would be improvement over time if it was just the wind getting knocked out of them. If the rib is fractured and the lung is punctured, the pain will not diminish and breathing will only get worse. He can try and suck up the pain, but asking him to take deep breaths and listening with a stethescope for decreased breath sounds in one lung are a dead give away.

This is why you get vitals every five minutes. By the time you're done undressing and examining your patient, you've got three sets of vitals to compare.

If one my EMTs acted like this trainer, he/she would probably be getting a written reprimand.

[Dome]

10 minutes ago, Slateman said:

There would be improvement over time if it was just the wind getting knocked out of them. If the rib is fractured and the lung is punctured, the pain will not diminish and breathing will only get worse.

yep, covered that.

“Obviously the longer the symptoms show the more likely it is more than just the wind getting knocked out, but right off the bat they can look really similar.”

10 minutes ago, Slateman said:

He can try and suck up the pain, but asking him to take deep breaths and listening with a stethescope for decreased breath sounds in one lung are a dead give away.

This is why you get vitals every five minutes. By the time you're done undressing and examining your patient, you've got three sets of vitals to compare.

If one my EMTs acted like this trainer, he/she would probably be getting a written reprimand.

This all seems like it pertains to emergency responders.

I’m not sure that NFL trainers are instructed to act in the same way as EMTs, certainly not in all circumstances (am former EMT).

We have no idea how bad Renfrows symptoms were at the time either, he was apparently out making plays after the hit.

I certainly can’t make a call on how they handled it, especially when comparing them to a completely different job.

[EvilenFroggen]

15 hours ago, Oregon Ducks said:

There's a dude named Bless? lol

 

His favorite actor is Chosen Jacobs. 

[Slateman]

2 hours ago, Dome said:

yep, covered that.

“Obviously the longer the symptoms show the more likely it is more than just the wind getting knocked out, but right off the bat they can look really similar.”

This all seems like it pertains to emergency responders.

I’m not sure that NFL trainers are instructed to act in the same way as EMTs, certainly not in all circumstances (am former EMT).

We have no idea how bad Renfrows symptoms were at the time either, he was apparently out making plays after the hit.

I certainly can’t make a call on how they handled it, especially when comparing them to a completely different job.

This is basic level of care. You can't say that you assessed an injury to the thoracic region if you didn't listen to lung sounds. Everyone learns this at a basic level of care. Certainly a doctor would know this.

It's entirely likely that Renfrow just didn't say anything and the trainers were simply too busy to notice. But if he complained about it to any of the trainers, they missed a pretty big issue that could have been much worse. It doesn't take much force from a broke rib to broken ribs causing flail chest, which becomes a life threatening emergency. The punctured lung would have been easily diagnosed with just a stethoscope and two minutes of listening.

18 hours ago, holyghost said:

Agreed on the indignation, in principle. But firing them I think overlooks the real root of the problem. I would assume with 98% certainty they are still deeply entrenched in the "rub some dirt on it" mentality even if they are supposed to be in the medical care profession. And whoever replaces them would be too. You can't be "anti-tough" in football. Unfortunately that often means you have to be mostly stupid. It doesn't really have to be that way, but it almost always is. Not many bridges between the two or any other dichotomy in today's world.

Firing them is cutting off a hydra's head in my mind. 

I think this touches on a much bigger issue, which is the hiring of athletic trainers who aren't doctors or more medically based and that staff being paid for by the team and not the players. 

[Nex_Gen]

18 hours ago, Oregon Ducks said:

There's a dude named Bless? lol

 

Its' 2019. Are you surprised?

[holyghost]

2 hours ago, Slateman said:

This is basic level of care. You can't say that you assessed an injury to the thoracic region if you didn't listen to lung sounds. Everyone learns this at a basic level of care. Certainly a doctor would know this.

It's entirely likely that Renfrow just didn't say anything and the trainers were simply too busy to notice. But if he complained about it to any of the trainers, they missed a pretty big issue that could have been much worse. It doesn't take much force from a broke rib to broken ribs causing flail chest, which becomes a life threatening emergency. The punctured lung would have been easily diagnosed with just a stethoscope and two minutes of listening.

I think this touches on a much bigger issue, which is the hiring of athletic trainers who aren't doctors or more medically based and that staff being paid for by the team and not the players. 

Undoubtedly. And to go even further along those lines, why is it that teams find it impossible to assimilate the modern idea that the preservation of the long term health of a good player is good for both the team AND the player. 

[Siv]

I remember in the playoffs a few years ago Randall Cobb came to the sideline and coughed up some blood and was later found to have a punctured lung. Didn’t know if that was a common thing.

[Slateman]

3 hours ago, Siv said:

I remember in the playoffs a few years ago Randall Cobb came to the sideline and coughed up some blood and was later found to have a punctured lung. Didn’t know if that was a common thing.

It's not uncommon, particularly in car accidents. The lower side of the shoulder belt falls along the floating ribs. Makes them easier to break puncture an organ, usually the lung.

[Tugboat]

This headline is entirely unsurprising, considering the way Renfrow plays the game.  I mean that in the sense of a detached admiration, where i wouldn't recommend it, ever, to anybody.  But man that guy plays hard.