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Tanny "King of the" Hill- Should he be the future?


KingTitan

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Just now, TitanSS said:

Henry probably doesn't change the outcome of a loss, but he is certainly better than the practice squad players we have on the roster behind him.

Practice squad? Lol... Lewis is what, a top 10 paid RB in the NFL? The staff thought so highly of him that they wanted to split carries between him and Henry early on. 

Smith showed what the game plan is with a 14-0 1st q lead against the Ravens. Slow the game down, win Top, wear the opponent down. 

The outcome is definitely different if we have a healthy (playoff) Henry against the Saints. A healthy Henry against the Texans also makes that a different game. Honestly, it's ridiculous to argue otherwise. 

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14 minutes ago, ragevsuall17 said:

Practice squad? Lol... Lewis is what, a top 10 paid RB in the NFL? The staff thought so highly of him that they wanted to split carries between him and Henry early on. 

Smith showed what the game plan is with a 14-0 1st q lead against the Ravens. Slow the game down, win Top, wear the opponent down. 

The outcome is definitely different if we have a healthy (playoff) Henry against the Saints. A healthy Henry against the Texans also makes that a different game. Honestly, it's ridiculous to argue otherwise. 

And when they tried that against a team that could score on our defense we immediately lost the lead. We had a 20-10 TOP lead on KC at halftime but were losing by 4. That strategy doesn't work without elite defensive play stopping the other team. As KC showed, what matters is scoring points.

It's not ridiculous to say that we don't necessarily win those the Saints and Texans game without Henry. Is he better than his replacements? By a mile. Does have a much better RB guarantee a victory in a close game where you are behind the entire 2nd half? No. It's ridiculous to claim that one player at the least important position in the game changes the entire outcome of two games. He certainly increases our chances of winning in those games.

 

Edited by TitanSS
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Forget everything I just said you all got me off the point I was trying to make. The statement was that Derrick Henry carried us to our first two playoff victories. That is completely false. Our defense did. They scored 13 and 12 points. The Ravens even won TOP so it wasn't just Henry playing keep away.

Was Henry responsible for the majority of the offense in those games? Yes. We were trying to run the clock out because they couldn't score on us. That's not the argument I sat out to make. I was tricked lol

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You're trying to downplay Henry's role while trying to make Tannehill more than he was.  He was good, no one is taking that away from him... he was important to our run, drastically better than Mariota.  But he showed he's still just a game manager... who when paired with an elite running game, is very good at doing what he needs to do to win games.

Since Henry got going against the Chiefs in week 10, we averaged 186 passing yards and 203 running yards per game when we won.

In Tannehill's 4 losses, we averaged 259 passing yards and 129 rushing yards.  

FTR, our D gave up an average of 398 yards per game during those wins, and 381 during the losses.  

 

With a gimpy Henry, he was asked to get us a win against Houston and couldn't... without Henry, he was asked to beat NO, and they couldn't hold on to a lead.  And when a opposing D finally took Henry away, he couldn't do anything to get us the win.  After taking a 17-7 lead, Henry was neutralized totaling 6 rushes for 8 yards.  Tannehill went 10/14 for 73 yards, 1 TD, and 2 sacks (one on 3rd down and the other on 4th).  The biggest play after we took the 17-7 lead was the fake punt which resulted in a 28 yard gain.  10/14 is good... 5 ypa is not...3 1st downs in the last 36+ minutes is not.  

I'm not against bringing Tanny back... but I am if he's going to get significantly more than 75M over the next 3 years. I'm also strongly of the opinion that bringing Tanny back without Henry is not going to yield positive results... without investing heavily in another back (big money in FA or high draft pick), and even that is a gamble.  Lcok Henry up first, then let the QB dominoes fall into place... 1st choice is Tanny, within reason... and if not, I'm ok with a couple of the other veteran options available.

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28 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

The NE and Baltimore games had nothing to do with Tannehill not being able to do anything. He simply was taken out of the gameplan save for 3rd and long. He had some costly mistakes as well.

On offense we simply wanted to drain clock and he just kept handing it off in each of the two wins.

But that is irrelevant. No on one offense is as responsible for the first two wins as our defense was. The only reason Henry can rack up 34 carries is because of them. The media blew up about Henry because we handed it off a thousand times but the defense won those games.

We weren’t trying to drain the clock against NE until the mid-late 4th. Don’t act like it was an all game thing or something we tried to do for the entire second half lol....it was a 1 point game. We had to keep running because every time Tannehill attempted a pass it put us behind the sticks because he couldn’t get anything going. He threw for under 100 yards, completed 50% of his passes, and threw a bad interception...that’s a terrible game. As for the Baltimore game, they knew we were going to pound Henry down their throats to shorten the game after we got up 14 and the fact that he did it anyways speaks volumes. That’s not solely the defense lol. That’s complimentary football. The fact that you aren’t crediting him after he was historically great is hilarious tbh.

 

2 hours ago, TitanSS said:

Henry had 3.6 YPC against KC. He was basically eliminated from that game regardless of what carries he had. When the defense played awful our star player did nothing in the biggest game of the season. It's not his fault, they stacked the box. We should have been passing more and then run when we get more favorable fronts.

This isn’t even close to being true. He had 69 yards on 4.3 ypc and a TD in the first half. It wasn’t as good as the previous 2 games, but he was still effective. In the second half he was stopped on the drive after KC’s initial possession, then when KC got the ball back they went up 28-17 and we abandoned the run the rest of the way.

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Shouldn’t it raise some eye brows that Tannehill couldn’t rise to the occasion without Henry?

Held scoreless against Carolina in the first half when the game plan was to ride the arm of Tannehill.

Couldn’t get the job done against Houston when Henry was hobbled.

Couldnt get the job done against New Orleans with Henry out.

Had a terrible game against New Engand.

Couldn’t keep us in the game against Kansas City when we had to abandon the run.

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6 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

Shouldn’t it raise some eye brows that Tannehill couldn’t rise to the occasion without Henry?

Held scoreless against Carolina in the first half when the game plan was to ride the arm of Tannehill.

Couldn’t get the job done against Houston when Henry was hobbled.

Couldnt get the job done against New Orleans with Henry out.

Had a terrible game against New Engand.

Couldn’t keep us in the game against Kansas City when we had to abandon the run.

They are red flags to me. 
But I can think of the Oakland game and maybe the Chargers game where he won us the game with his arm. 
KC's last drive was mainly him but we've seen Marcus do that too and well that got him out the door. lol

Ryan has played great, but he needs help. He needs a running game and he needs a defense. 
We needed more from him in KC, but how much of that was the bad passing game design or just him?

Still holds the ball too long and saw a post on twitter where he drops too deep in the pocket leading to sacks. 

I don't think he is the franchise QB of the future. He can be the QB of now for 2-3 years. We ultimately still need to find our Mahomes to keep us atop the AFC for years to come. 

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3 minutes ago, KingTitan said:

They are red flags to me. 
But I can think of the Oakland game and maybe the Chargers game where he won us the game with his arm. 
KC's last drive was mainly him but we've seen Marcus do that too and well that got him out the door. lol

Ryan has played great, but he needs help. He needs a running game and he needs a defense. 
We needed more from him in KC, but how much of that was the bad passing game design or just him?

Still holds the ball too long and saw a post on twitter where he drops too deep in the pocket leading to sacks. 

I don't think he is the franchise QB of the future. He can be the QB of now for 2-3 years. We ultimately still need to find our Mahomes to keep us atop the AFC for years to come. 

His fumbles are also a very, very major concern. We were fortunate to recover most of them.

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2 hours ago, dtait93 said:

We weren’t trying to drain the clock against NE until the mid-late 4th. Don’t act like it was an all game thing or something we tried to do for the entire second half lol....it was a 1 point game. We had to keep running because every time Tannehill attempted a pass it put us behind the sticks because he couldn’t get anything going. He threw for under 100 yards, completed 50% of his passes, and threw a bad interception...that’s a terrible game. As for the Baltimore game, they knew we were going to pound Henry down their throats to shorten the game after we got up 14 and the fact that he did it anyways speaks volumes. That’s not solely the defense lol. That’s complimentary football. The fact that you aren’t crediting him after he was historically great is hilarious tbh.

 

This isn’t even close to being true. He had 69 yards on 4.3 ypc and a TD in the first half. It wasn’t as good as the previous 2 games, but he was still effective. In the second half he was stopped on the drive after KC’s initial possession, then when KC got the ball back they went up 28-17 and we abandoned the run the rest of the way.

Tannehill threw 15 passes and Henry had 34 carries. Yeah we weren't trying to drain the clock lol.

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20 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

Tannehill threw 15 passes and Henry had 34 carries. Yeah we weren't trying to drain the clock lol.

Nope that’s a blanket statement that’s ignoring the nuances. Go back and watch the game. Henry ran 34 times to Tannehills 15 passes because Tannehill couldn’t do jack lol. You don’t start draining the clock in the 3rd quarter in a 1 point game lmao

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19 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

Nope that’s a blanket statement that’s ignoring the nuances. Go back and watch the game. Henry ran 34 times to Tannehills 15 passes because Tannehill couldn’t do jack lol. You don’t start draining the clock in the 3rd quarter in a 1 point game lmao

It's a factual statement. How hard were we trying to pass if he threw 15 passes in 4 quartera? Tannehill played fine until the 3rd quarter and then, as I mentioned, he had some big mistakes that could have cost us the game but the defense bailed us out. We scored 14 points, so obviously the offense as a whole wasn't doing jack despite Derrick Henry "carrying" us.

What does one game out of a season prove other than the fact that fans are easily susceptible to recency bias?

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7 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

Tannehill played fine until the 3rd quarter and then as I mentioned he had some big mistakes. But honestly we had already forgotten about passing at that point as well. 

What does one game out of a season plus three post season games prove?

Henry averaged 5.4 ypc while Tannehill averaged 4.8 ypa and we just somehow, “forgot” about passing? Lol give me a break man.

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6 minutes ago, dtait93 said:

Henry averaged 5.4 ypc while Tannehill averaged 4.8 ypa and we just somehow, “forgot” about passing? Lol give me a break man.

Tannehill threw 6 passes in the 2nd half. He was 5/9 for 53 yards in the first half. He had a bad game and a really bad third quarter.

You're sitting on one game because it's literally all you have in your argument. 

Again, what does one game, in which Derrick Henry's legendary performance led to 14 points mean going forward? I've honestly forgotten what your original argument was and even made a post saying forget everything I said because you got me off topic trying to defend a claim I didn't even mean to be talking about lol.

 

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1 hour ago, TitanSS said:

Tannehill threw 6 passes in the 2nd half. He was 5/9 for 53 yards in the first half. He had a bad game and a really bad third quarter.

You're sitting on one game because it's literally all you have in your argument. 

 

Wrong.

4 hours ago, dtait93 said:

Shouldn’t it raise some eye brows that Tannehill couldn’t rise to the occasion without Henry?

Held scoreless against Carolina in the first half when the game plan was to ride the arm of Tannehill.

Couldn’t get the job done against Houston when Henry was hobbled.

Couldnt get the job done against New Orleans with Henry out.

Had a terrible game against New Engand.

Couldn’t keep us in the game against Kansas City when we had to abandon the run.

 

 

10 minutes ago, TitanSS said:

Again, what does one game, in which Derrick Henry's legendary performance led to 14 points mean going forward? I've honestly forgotten what your original argument was and even made a post saying forget everything I said because you got me off topic trying to defend a claim I didn't even mean to be talking about lol.

It’s more than one game man. It’s his performance against KC in the 2017 wildcard round, it’s his end to the 2018 season carrying an offense featuring dead arm Marcus and Gabbert with no weapons, it’s his him leading the league in rushing, leading the league in rushing TD’s, becoming a pro bowl, and of course his historical playoff run. My original argument was that Tannehill is not the most important player on our roster. If he was then when push came to shove he would lead us to victories when we abandon the run or when Henry is hobbled/not playing. And he definitely isn’t the unquestioned leader of the team either that’s for damn sure lol.

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