2020 NFL draft thread

[JStar221]

The draft didn't do enough. Not that it had much of a shot to anyways but imo this is around a 6-10 team (4 to 8 wins depending on other moves and opponents quality at game time etc) unless like what happened two years ago - we face opponents that have injuries at key positions. 

The OL still going to be a problem unless Fleming completely surprises. Thomas will need a year. And they won't be able to run the football inside. DG has made a major blunder in believing because he drafted an extremely talented RB that he thought he'd get a pretty good running game vs most of the league. Jones is probably too young to lift a not-very-good OL too. The WR's and TE aren't very good overall so offensively they won't be very good. The Offense still isn't good enough to carry a poor defense. This is mainly a DG blunder, He didn't realize from the start that he needed to preserve picks. 

As far as the defense- the DL in a 3-4 is fine. But the LB's are a huge question other than Martinez (will probably be okay), and you can only pencil in one good secondary player. The others are all questions. Peppers is an average player. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Xavier turns out to be better than Peppers as the season progresses. Baker still unknown. The rest is nothing more that gut-feel as to who might perform well enough. 

 

[Gmen19851]

3 hours ago, Acgott said:

I would have traded back or up in the 2nd/3rd. I don’t know the offer, but I felt that was a key miss

I agree, but they really liked McKinney and it wouldn't have helped the pass rush.  

[Kip Smithers]

5 hours ago, Gmen19851 said:

I get that you're unhappy about addressing the pass rush, but with a team with this many holes, we can't fix all of them in one offseason.  What would you have done differently?

This isn’t really about this pass draft because quite frankly the value wasn’t there. But I’m talking in general terms. We haven’t had a pass rush in years. 
 

Y’all are saying that pass rush can be schemed. Correct. That has its limits. Bettcher probably thought the same too and we were below average at best. And we got a new DC who last year in Miami had the worst pass rush in the league. 

[Gmen19851]

1 hour ago, Kip Smithers said:

This isn’t really about this pass draft because quite frankly the value wasn’t there. But I’m talking in general terms. We haven’t had a pass rush in years. 
 

Y’all are saying that pass rush can be schemed. Correct. That has its limits. Bettcher probably thought the same too and we were below average at best. And we got a new DC who last year in Miami had the worst pass rush in the league. 

No, I don't think it can be schemed.  I think we need more talent there.  I was just wondering what you would have done differently.  What I do think is that it is possible after this year, if the offensive line takes strides, that we would be a good pass rusher away from competing again so that's what I like from this past draft.

[Go_Giants]

7 hours ago, Kip Smithers said:

 

Y’all are saying that pass rush can be schemed. Correct. That has its limits. Bettcher probably thought the same too and we were below average at best. And we got a new DC who last year in Miami had the worst pass rush in the league. 

There is a fair chance that Bettcher might not be that great a DC, all he was doing was running Todd Bowles system. From what I heard of Patrick Graham, last year Giants team had more talent on defense than the Dolphins defense.  I am thinking he can do a thing or two with what has to work with now. I am not saying we are a top 10 defense or even above average. As I been saying if we can be a bend but don't break defense that will be enough for next season.

[Go_Giants]

8 hours ago, JStar221 said:

The draft didn't do enough. Not that it had much of a shot to anyways but imo this is around a 6-10 team (4 to 8 wins depending on other moves and opponents quality at game time etc) unless like what happened two years ago - we face opponents that have injuries at key positions. 

The OL still going to be a problem unless Fleming completely surprises. Thomas will need a year. And they won't be able to run the football inside. DG has made a major blunder in believing because he drafted an extremely talented RB that he thought he'd get a pretty good running game vs most of the league. Jones is probably too young to lift a not-very-good OL too. The WR's and TE aren't very good overall so offensively they won't be very good. The Offense still isn't good enough to carry a poor defense. This is mainly a DG blunder, He didn't realize from the start that he needed to preserve picks. 

As far as the defense- the DL in a 3-4 is fine. But the LB's are a huge question other than Martinez (will probably be okay), and you can only pencil in one good secondary player. The others are all questions. Peppers is an average player. Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if Xavier turns out to be better than Peppers as the season progresses. Baker still unknown. The rest is nothing more that gut-feel as to who might perform well enough. 

 

Other than your win total I disagree with most of what you have to say. Fleming is the swing tackle, we don't need him to completely surprise, in fact we don't even need him. If Feling sucks,  Peart can be the new swing tackle.  The only question we have on the o-line is at center, other than that we have an above average offensive line that will be good next year and great in two years.

As for Wideout  are they great, no,  but are they good enough, yes. Golden Tate is getting up in years but he is still a good player, Darius Slayton is a good player, who knows perhaps he could make the jump to very good this season. At Tight End if Engram is healthy he is easily a  top 10  TE  maybe a top 5. If he is not healthy I like what Kaden Smith showed as last year, I think we are fine at Tight End.

Daniel Jones has two issue, one the turnovers and two learning a new system. Sadly because of this virus situation the coaching staff is not going to be able to work hands on with him to improve him in those areas.  However the offensive line is improved which will lead to a better running game with Barkley which in turn will help out Daniel Jones.

On defense we have our Linebackers from past draft that are still developing that could break out this season, we have all the linebackers we just drafted, and we have our free agent linebackers. I refuse to believe all of them are going to suck. Odds are one will be very good, one will be good and one will just be average. Same thing for our secondary. 

[JStar221]

47 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

Other than your win total I disagree with most of what you have to say. Fleming is the swing tackle, we don't need him to completely surprise, in fact we don't even need him. If Feling sucks,  Peart can be the new swing tackle.  The only question we have on the o-line is at center, other than that we have an above average offensive line that will be good next year and great in two years.

As for Wideout  are they great, no,  but are they good enough, yes. Golden Tate is getting up in years but he is still a good player, Darius Slayton is a good player, who knows perhaps he could make the jump to very good this season. At Tight End if Engram is healthy he is easily a  top 10  TE  maybe a top 5. If he is not healthy I like what Kaden Smith showed as last year, I think we are fine at Tight End.

Daniel Jones has two issue, one the turnovers and two learning a new system. Sadly because of this virus situation the coaching staff is not going to be able to work hands on with him to improve him in those areas.  However the offensive line is improved which will lead to a better running game with Barkley which in turn will help out Daniel Jones.

On defense we have our Linebackers from past draft that are still developing that could break out this season, we have all the linebackers we just drafted, and we have our free agent linebackers. I refuse to believe all of them are going to suck. Odds are one will be very good, one will be good and one will just be average. Same thing for our secondary. 

Okay we're at complete opposite ends here. 

I hope you are right. I'm rooting for your optimism.

The OL is still not good. Therefore you're only going to see a running game vs rotten teams on occasion. IMO you are vastly overrating the OL. I heard it all last year and the year before. We get rid of Flowers and Omameh etc then "ofc" I have been told we'll be better. But getting bad replacement players overall doesn't help. Solder is a bad OT now. Hernandez is overrated. They have no legit center, Thomas is a rookie so he'll have his struggles, and Zeitler is not a run blocker. And Peart won't help anything this year. All I've read is that he's a project. Other than Thomas, tell me which OL has a strength of run blocking? Solder, Zeitler, Hernandez and the center are not "plus" run blockers. And you have ask what are the most important positions on the OL? They are Tackles and Center. Solder and the center stink. I can't imagine Barkley being successful against good teams with what he has to work with. 

As for the LB's -- tell me who is the good player other than Martinez? The others don';t have to suck for the Giants to have a bad defense. They just have to be overall below average.  --  You say they can break out. I say they can bust. So far they have been closer to bust than breakout imo. So why should I think they will break out?  What have we seen to suggest they are going to break out? 

And as far as the WR's and TE-- yes I agree they  are "good enough"--for a 6-10 team. Engram can't stay on the field. SS is one hit away from quitting. Tate is a fine 3rd wr that was already a bit too old. Wasn';t there some stat out there about WR's having separation and the Giants were among the worst in the league?  

If several defensive players break out and our OL is good and our RB is super and our WRs are good why then did you agree with me that we could be as bad as having 4 wins? 

 

[Go_Giants]

12 minutes ago, JStar221 said:

Okay we're at complete opposite ends here. 

I hope you are right. I'm rooting for your optimism.

The OL is still not good. Therefore you're only going to see a running game vs rotten teams on occasion. IMO you are vastly overrating the OL. I heard it all last year and the year before. We get rid of Flowers and Omameh etc then "ofc" I have been told we'll be better. But getting bad replacement players overall doesn't help. Solder is a bad OT now. Hernandez is overrated. They have no legit center, Thomas is a rookie so he'll have his struggles, and Zeitler is not a run blocker. And Peart won't help anything this year. All I've read is that he's a project. Other than Thomas, tell me which OL has a strength of run blocking? Solder, Zeitler, Hernandez and the center are not "plus" run blockers. And you have ask what are the most important positions on the OL? They are Tackles and Center. Solder and the center stink. I can't imagine Barkley being successful against good teams with what he has to work with. 

As for the LB's -- tell me who is the good player other than Martinez? The others don';t have to suck for the Giants to have a bad defense. They just have to be overall below average.  --  You say they can break out. I say they can bust. So far they have been closer to bust than breakout imo. So why should I think they will break out?  What have we seen to suggest they are going to break out? 

And as far as the WR's and TE-- yes I agree they  are "good enough"--for a 6-10 team. Engram can't stay on the field. SS is one hit away from quitting. Tate is a fine 3rd wr that was already a bit too old. Wasn';t there some stat out there about WR's having separation and the Giants were among the worst in the league?  

If several defensive players break out and our OL is good and our RB is super and our WRs are good why then did you agree with me that we could be as bad as having 4 wins? 

 

When just about everybody here was cheering that we drafted Saquon Barkley, I was not and let it known on draft night I was not. Love the player, but there is no need to draft a rb that high when you don't have a good offensive line. Last year early on when the o-line was playing well and people here said it was good, I said it was just decent. I think the o-line is good now because the average quality of the players puts it at good.  For someone being paid as much as he is it might feel like Solder sucks, but does not suck.  Solder is just an average Tackle I feel he is better than Remmers, so in a way we upgraded at RT.  Zeitler is good. Hernandez had a step back last year, however he is young and we have a better coaching staff, he can improve, so I have faith he will be good this year. Thomas he is going to have some struggles when it comes to the pass at times, but when it comes to run blocking, for him that is not going to be that hard, move the man in front of you out of the way. I think at the very worst Thomas is a  very good player.  As for Center, who knows how good Lemieux may or may not be, the Giants might also bring in a new center. What can't be denied is Thomas by himself has upgraded the o-line and we have a very talented running back that will be running behind it.

As for the Linebackers, just on the law of averages I believe one if not two should step up. I also believe with all the linebackers we have now competition can force them to step up. And  as I have said before, I believe in this coaching staff unlike last year's staff. I believe they will get the most out of our players during the season. 

We seem to agree about the Wideouts and Tight Ends so no need to talk about them.

I believe this is a 6-10 team for two reasons, first as  I mentioned in my last post. We are not going to have a normal off season. New coaches to a team get extra time in the off season with their players to help them adjust to the new system. We are not going to have that extra time which means the Giants are going to be a step behind most teams. 

The second reason why I think this is a 6-10 team even if everything breaks right with our talent  is because we have a very hard schedule. Outside of our division I only see 3-4 winnable games, Bengals, Browns, Cardinals, Bears. I can see us going 3-3 in our division and winning three out of the four of those winnable games, which makes us a 6-10 team.  I agree about X-factors so we could win as many as 8 or we could only win 4. Till I see the final schedule 6-10 for the Giants feels  right to me. 

[EL Guapo]

I'll be taking the over on the Giants

[JStar221]

I've made a slight change of my prediction going into this season. We are a 4-7 win team. Won't get to 8. So expect imo 5-6 wins.  If the odds were to go to 6.5 I would take the under.