Week 13 GDT - Baltimore Ravens vs San Francisco 49ers

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, N4L said:

Both Kyle and Jimmy said after the game the number one goal of that drive was to run clock and not give the ball back to the Ravens. The ravens were getting the ball after the half and they didn't want to be down 3 scores before they got the ball again. 

So it wasn't bad clock management, because they managed the clock how they intended to, but you could say it was bad strategy. I would disagree with you still, but then your argument would actually be coherent 

If that is the hill they want to plant their flag on, then yeah, it's bad strategy. Doesn't make it any better. They messed it up, regardless of whatever semantics are used to obfuscate the situation. 

It's also largely spineless in that case, especially after opening the drive with a 19 yard run from Mostert. 

[Forge]

There is no way to argue the handling of the situation at the end of the first half that reflects well on Shanny in my opinion. If he butchered the clock, that's bad. If he butchered the strategy, that's bad and he played scared football. 

[oldman9er]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

There is no way to argue the handling of the situation at the end of the first half that reflects well on Shanny in my opinion. If he butchered the clock, that's bad. If he butchered the strategy, that's bad and he played scared football. 

The only way I see, is to either embrace or roll eyes at hindsight. 

At the time where he was letting the clock run down, I didn't like it, but I understood it. 

Then, as said, that big and surprising run changed the dynamic. Already said as much, but I didn't love the overall passing approach of this game. They blitzed a bunch. We knew they were likely going to. We have a good trio in Kittle, Sanders, and Deebo.. so it seemed to me that Shanny made an eval of how Jimmy looked on his throws.. and ultimately decided it was not to be a grand day for the deeper attack. 

Maybe I'm just remembering things wrong, as I drank my fill through and after. Just felt like this moment of the game is not the one to dissect and grab pitchforks over. 

We showed up. We showed plenty of good, under the circumstances. Now, we look to the health of our boys, and the Who Dats. 

That's just me though; do carry on.  

[Dub_City30]

Just one thing ive noticed is Jimmy G getting better at driving the ball. He looks like he does lately. 

[757-NINER]

2 hours ago, N4L said:

Both Kyle and Jimmy said after the game the number one goal of that drive was to run clock and not give the ball back to the Ravens. The ravens were getting the ball after the half and they didn't want to be down 3 scores before they got the ball again. 

So it wasn't bad clock management, because they managed the clock how they intended to, but you could say it was bad strategy. I would disagree with you still, but then your argument would actually be coherent 

 

I thought it was bad strategy. Once Morstert had his big run that put us near or pass the 50, you play to get points. Close game, in those conditions. Who knows how many opportunities you have to put points on the board. They literally waited and then decided to huddle up and burn clock. You had momentum. You had their defense scrambling. Even if you give them the ball back, they're going to be at the least, trying to go 80 yards in under 30 seconds. I trust our defense in that scenario. If you wanted the clock to run, run up to the line and call a draw. Call a screen. But don't slow it down, huddle up and just let the clock run with no urgency. Felt that was a opportunity wasted. We could have definitely gotten more yards to allow that FG to be closer kick for Gould if we had been more aggressive from the end of Morstert's run.

[757-NINER]

2 hours ago, oldman9er said:

The only way I see, is to either embrace or roll eyes at hindsight. 

At the time where he was letting the clock run down, I didn't like it, but I understood it. 

Then, as said, that big and surprising run changed the dynamic. Already said as much, but I didn't love the overall passing approach of this game. They blitzed a bunch. We knew they were likely going to. We have a good trio in Kittle, Sanders, and Deebo.. so it seemed to me that Shanny made an eval of how Jimmy looked on his throws.. and ultimately decided it was not to be a grand day for the deeper attack. 

Maybe I'm just remembering things wrong, as I drank my fill through and after. Just felt like this moment of the game is not the one to dissect and grab pitchforks over. 

We showed up. We showed plenty of good, under the circumstances. Now, we look to the health of our boys, and the Who Dats. 

That's just me though; do carry on.  

No pitchforks here. I said my peace...it is what is.

What I don't get is why fans act like Shanny can't have 'wtf' moments like every other coach in the history of football. Its ok to be critical of his decisions, in critical moments. He's a young coach who is still learning. Nothing wrong in admitting you got it wrong. Though I never see Shanny EVER admitting as much. 

[Forge]

24 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

No pitchforks here. I said my peace...it is what is.

What I don't get is why fans act like Shanny can't have 'wtf' moments like every other coach in the history of football. Its ok to be critical of his decisions, in critical moments. He's a young coach who is still learning. Nothing wrong in admitting you got it wrong. Though I never see Shanny EVER admitting as much. 

I wish I could have you 10 likes for this post. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

4 hours ago, NinerNation21 said:

Gould makes the field goal at the end of the first half and the 49ers convert the last 4th down and they win the game - plain and simple. 

Or the 49ers play better in other areas, and the game doesn't come down to that in the first place. 

[N4L]

6 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

No pitchforks here. I said my peace...it is what is.

What I don't get is why fans act like Shanny can't have 'wtf' moments like every other coach in the history of football. Its ok to be critical of his decisions, in critical moments. He's a young coach who is still learning. Nothing wrong in admitting you got it wrong. Though I never see Shanny EVER admitting as much. 

that's completely fair and at the end of the day we are just having a discussion. Kyle isn't infallible. He obviously made a mistake on the 4th down call at the end of the game, and he did admit as much. I would bet he does more self reflection on stuff than he says publicly. He is pretty open to the media but I don't think he tells us everything. 

I thought the strategy made sense at the time because of how the first half had went and the conditions. I mean, @Forge said to start the drive that he thought jimmy would have dumb turnover on the drive. I agree that the mostert run changed the situation and that kyle didn't change his thought process, but I bet that (dumb turnover) was on Kyle's mind as well. It felt like kyle changed his approach once we had the dumb jimmy fumble and then got down 14-7. That was when we really started to lean on the run game and only have jimmy throw down the field on 3rd down. 

We have seen kyle be aggressive in those spots before, (not taking a tie and throwing three times against SEA) but I understand his reasoning of just getting into the locker room down 3 against a good team on the road

If we were supposed to get the ball back in the 2nd half I would bet Kyle would have been more aggressive, because a BAL score would mean the game was still in reach. If we had a bad turnover and they scored, then scored again on their first possession, it would have been potentially a 17 point game and much harder to come back from. Getting the ball in the second half would have limited that exposure to 10 points, plus had the advantage of doubling them up. It completely changes the factors at play. 

[Forge]

4 minutes ago, N4L said:

I mean, @Forge said to start the drive that he thought jimmy would have dumb turnover on the drive.

No I didn't. 

I said that I was terrified that we would force something. Those are not remotely the same things. 

 

[Forge]

7 minutes ago, N4L said:

We have seen kyle be aggressive in those spots before, (not taking a tie and throwing three times against SEA) but I understand his reasoning of just getting into the locker room down 3 against a good team on the road

It's a balancing act. Anyone acting like making these decisions is easy is being disingenuous. It's not easy to know the exact right thing to do in each one of these situations. In Seattle, I thought we should have opened with a run, for example, to drain some of the clock. This time we did, but then I Felt like Shanny didn't flip the switch, which is what I would have done. But it's fair to look at it critically. The situations vary considerably each and every time. 

[N4L]

On 12/1/2019 at 11:14 AM, Forge said:

I'm terrified that we force something in this 2 minute drill. 

This is what you said before the drive. while you didn't explicitly state you were worried about a turnover, I think its exactly what you meant

On 12/1/2019 at 11:18 AM, Forge said:

Better than a turnover lol

This is what you said after the penalty, so turnovers were certainly part of the equation for you at the time.

 

Not trying to call you out or anything lol 

[Forge]

2 minutes ago, N4L said:

This is what you said before the drive. while you didn't explicitly state you were worried about a turnover, I think its exactly what you meant

This is what you said after the penalty, so turnovers were certainly part of the equation for you at the time.

 

Not trying to call you out or anything lol 

Those do not match what you said that I stated. Being afraid of forcing something is not the same as stating I thought we were going to turn the ball over. If you can't see a very clear line of delineation there, I don't know what to tell you. 

[N4L]

4 minutes ago, Forge said:

It's a balancing act. Anyone acting like making these decisions is easy is being disingenuous. It's not easy to know the exact right thing to do in each one of these situations. In Seattle, I thought we should have opened with a run, for example, to drain some of the clock. This time we did, but then I Felt like Shanny didn't flip the switch, which is what I would have done. But it's fair to look at it critically. The situations vary considerably each and every time. 

absolutely. sometimes you need to go based on what the analytics say, and other times you need to make decisions based on instinct. fine line for sure especially in the heat of battle, but I didnt think ensuring we went into the half down three was bad strategy. It was the right strategy that didnt work out for us because we lost by 3, but that doesnt mean that it was bad strategy and that it 'cost us the game' per se. 

You can have good strategy and not have it work out sometimes. that's life. Knowing we only score 3 points in the second half, we certainly would have been more aggressive there. 

1 minute ago, Forge said:

Those do not match what you said that I stated. Being afraid of forcing something is not the same as stating I thought we were going to turn the ball over. If you can't see a very clear line of delineation there, I don't know what to tell you. 

They are different, yes. No argument from me on that point. being afraid of it and saying it was going to happen are certainly two different things. I can edit the post to reflect that if you want (lol) (don't take this discussion the wrong way, I am easy lol)

To be fair, my whole argument is predicated on the idea that kyle shared your concern regarding a turnover and therefore decided to limit risk by being conservative and running clock. 

I think it was a good strategy initially, but that kyle should have given us more of a chance to score once we got on their side of the field. Lets not forget that we probably score if sanders didn't get called for that penalty. 

[Forge]

12 minutes ago, N4L said:

They are different, yes. No argument from me on that point. being afraid of it and saying it was going to happen are certainly two different things. I can edit the post to reflect that if you want (lol) (don't take this discussion the wrong way, I am easy lol)

 

lol no need. I just have to make sure it's accurately represented. I play Mafia with @SwAg and @Malfatron, after all.