Lamar Jackson

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, Dub_City30 said:

Hell get figured out as all running QBs do. But so far hes been great but I think once his running has been figured out it will close up some of his passing lanes. 

He's already a better passer than 99% of all other running QB's, and he's only 22, and in his 2nd year. He's gonna continue to develop. People who think he's a one-read-scramble guy haven't watched a snap of Lamar Jackson this year.

[Split the Sticks]

17 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

He's already a better passer than 99% of all other running QB's, and he's only 22, and in his 2nd year. He's gonna continue to develop. People who think he's a one-read-scramble guy haven't watched a snap of Lamar Jackson this year.

ahhh, go back and root for Flacco, you Philistine!     j/k

[resilient part 2]

Unbelievable talent, no question

BUT how long can a man at that size survive before a RG3 type tackle kills him is my million dollar question.

[berlin calling]

i'd expect his stats to regress next year when his OC Greg Roman inevitably gets a HC gig somewhere. Scheme us part of his success this season.

But he definitely has the mindset and work ethic to evolve as a passer because he's humble enough to know his deficincies unlike say... other 2nd year QBs are.

[DontTazeMeBro]

Greg Roman will probably get a head coach job somewhere and in a couple years he’ll probably get upwards of 40 million a year and the overall  talent of the roster will probably decline. So it’s probably not gonna be quite this special after this year or the next. But he’s gonna keep getting better with experience as a passer and the speed isn’t going away for a long time so he’s going to stay a problem. But this year is probably special 

I don’t think he’s going to “get figured out” though. The personnel groups we use force defenses to use personnel that can’t deal with our speed. I don’t think there’s a magical scheme anyone is going to come up with. It’s probably going to take throwing lots of resources in the offseason to do it

Edited November 27, 2019 by DontTazeMeBro

[stl4life07]

3 hours ago, 11sanchez11 said:

Also Jared Goff

And Baker Mayfield

I disagree. Most people were down on Goff his rookie season. It was Wentz and Dak. Then in Goff second season people became skeptical and gave all the praise to McVay. Even then Wentz was still getting the love because of his MVP caliber season before he got hurt. Also a brief stint from Watson before he got hurt. In Goff third season he started to get more love but then it was Mahomes. So the media hasn’t been fully embracing Goff like they did Wentz, Watson, Mahomes, Kaepernick, RG3, and now Lamar.   and even Baker as you mentioned. Like even Dak gets more embraced than Goff and Ill say people don’t truly embrace him compared to the others. 

[wackywabbit]

15 minutes ago, resilient part 2 said:

Unbelievable talent, no question

BUT how long can a man at that size survive before a RG3 type tackle kills him is my million dollar question.

The injury variable is just really not something we can predict. If you would have said in 2012 that Russell Wilson's body would hold up and Cam and Luck (who were considered to have ideal frames) would be where they are it would have sounded crazy. Russell ran more than 100 times per season his first few years and took a ton of sacks/hits behind a bad line. It's not like Lamar is going to be at double that rate. I know people give Russell a ton of credit for being smart about how he takes hits, but...

1. I'm not sure how much of that is retroactive causation fitting

2. If it is a real thing, who says Lamar can't figure out how to do that? Lamar made a tremendous leap in terms of so many aspects (mechanics, footwork, accuracy, seeing the field...) from age 21 to age 22. If and when he takes an athletic drop at some point (from being faster than cornerbacks), that can't evolve his game. He's already playing a lot differently than he did just last year. 

I also remember Big Ben being a guy who A LOT of people said he wouldn't hold up until age 30, and yet he didn't miss more than 4 games in a season until he turned 37. 

[diamondbull424]

Will the offense regress, yes, I’m confident they will. It’s currently on pace to be the most lethal offense of all time. The 07 Patriots offense, the 06 Colts offense, the 00 Rams offense, 98 Vikings, etc. none of them were ever quite as dominant as they were in those years. So if sustainability means just as good, Lamar and the offense will see a decline.

That said as Lamar becomes a better passer and begins to air it out more, the economics would say that as his bulk passing production likely improves, the efficiency will decline some.

I mean if Lamar COULD sustain this type of offense and his current level of play for a decade he would be the GOAT because not even Manning or Brady were able to sustain their offenses when they were at their most historic paces. It would be foolish to assume Lamar could succeed where those predecessors had “failed”.

[Danand]

6 hours ago, Dub_City30 said:

Hell get figured out as all running QBs do. But so far hes been great but I think once his running has been figured out it will close up some of his passing lanes. 

If you go watch the Texans game, you will see, at they wanted to make him beat them from the pocket. They rushed 4 and kept 7 in coverage and Lamar carved them up in the passing game.

If you want to see how to contain him, see how the Steelers did it with 4 rushers. Now the thing is many many many don't understand, is that when a defense can rush with 4 and provide pressure, that is a QB killer for every single QB, not just Lamar.

[Melbourne 9er]

43 minutes ago, Danand said:

If you go watch the Texans game, you will see, at they wanted to make him beat them from the pocket. They rushed 4 and kept 7 in coverage and Lamar carved them up in the passing game.

If you want to see how to contain him, see how the Steelers did it with 4 rushers. Now the thing is many many many don't understand, is that when a defense can rush with 4 and provide pressure, that is a QB killer for every single QB, not just Lamar.

Agree, and this is exactly what the 49ers do. Will be very interesting to see how he goes against the 49ers D this Sunday. If he dominates them then he has the MVP this year in the bag.

[Jakuvious]

45 minutes ago, Danand said:

If you go watch the Texans game, you will see, at they wanted to make him beat them from the pocket. They rushed 4 and kept 7 in coverage and Lamar carved them up in the passing game.

If you want to see how to contain him, see how the Steelers did it with 4 rushers. Now the thing is many many many don't understand, is that when a defense can rush with 4 and provide pressure, that is a QB killer for every single QB, not just Lamar.

They had fewer passing yards than rushing yards against Houston. I don't think it was the passing D that got carved up.

[Danand]

14 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

They had fewer passing yards than rushing yards against Houston. I don't think it was the passing D that got carved up.

WATCH THE GAME!

Edited November 27, 2019 by Danand
Edit: You most likely think Goff had a better game than Lamar due to passing for more yards.

[Jakuvious]

14 minutes ago, Danand said:

WATCH THE GAME!

I did. They did well finishing drives with the passing game, but the run game was what often drove them into scoring position. But even then, two of the drives were capped off with dumpoffs to the flat to Ingram. Even the long play to Andrews was like a 10 yard pass with bad tackling. Houston's problem was not getting chewed up in the passing game. It was struggling with contain and tackling on option plays and short passes. Hell, their worst drive of the game was the early one where they got pass happy.

And Lamar gets a huge amount of credit for his contributions to the run game, that game. But watching that game I absolutely did NOT come away thinking that the Texans got lit up in the passing game. It was that the Ravens had impressive runners (Jackson included) and the Texans could not handle trying to tackle them (or Andrews.)

[Danand]

1 minute ago, Jakuvious said:

I did. They did well finishing drives with the passing game, but the run game was what often drove them into scoring position. But even then, two of the drives were capped off with dumpoffs to the flat to Ingram. Even the long play to Andrews was like a 10 yard pass with bad tackling. Houston's problem was not getting chewed up in the passing game. It was struggling with contain and tackling on option plays and short passes. Hell, their worst drive of the game was the early one where they got pass happy.

And Lamar gets a huge amount of credit for his contributions to the run game, that game. But watching that game I absolutely did NOT come away thinking that the Texans got lit up in the passing game. It was that the Ravens had impressive runners (Jackson included) and the Texans could not handle trying to tackle them (or Andrews.)

Wait, so now we have to take yards after catch and broken tackles away from the passing game. Jeeeez.

The rushing yards exceeded the passing yards due to late game long runs from Gus Edwards for instance. 

They could not stop Lamar passing the ball. Yesterday the Rams couldn't do it either. That is due to the scheme and offense, but that is the deal for any QB

[Jakuvious]

1 minute ago, Danand said:

Wait, so now we have to take yards after catch and broken tackles away from the passing game. Jeeeez.

The rushing yards exceeded the passing yards due to late game long runs from Gus Edwards for instance. 

They could not stop Lamar passing the ball. Yesterday the Rams couldn't do it either. That is due to the scheme and offense, but that is the deal for any QB

You said "Lamar carved them up in the passing game." A run driven offense with a lot of YAC is not what I call a QB carving a defense up. YAC and broken tackles count for the passing game, sure, but your assertion was that Jackson carved them up. Ingram and Andrews breaking tackles on short passes is just that, Ingram and Andrews breaking tackles. That's not being able to tackle, not not being able to stop a pass.

Now I'd be down to call what Jackson did against Miami "carving a defense up." Passes all over the field, lots of accurate throws, short, intermediate, and deep. TEs, WRs, and backs all involved.

I don't know, maybe I've been spoiled by Mahomes and my standards for a QB having a great game as a passer have risen. I just don't see a game where an offense had more rushing attempts and rushing yards than passing attempts and passing yards as a great example of a QB being unstoppable through the air.

Same with the Rams game. That was a run driven offense that capped off drives through the air. And that's fine, and Lamar rushed for 95 and was excellent in the red zone, so he still played a fantastic game. But that isn't a defense struggling to stop the passing attack. That's a defense getting slaughtered by the run game, and the offense throwing in the occasional pass play. This is where it gets to that weird thing where it feels like we're trying to veer credit away from the run offense to try to praise Lamar as a passer. That Rams game was pure run game dominance.