lolsurebro Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) The fact that you guys are arguing that Lamar is a better passer/QB than Goff must be a joke. Edited January 14, 2020 by lolsurebro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) 14 minutes ago, lolsurebro said: The fact that you guys are arguing that Lamar is a better passer than Goff must be a joke. The fact that you are arguing that Goff is a better passer after what he has looked like in his past 25 or so games must be a joke. Goff has not looked good for an extended period of time now, and at this point it is a slap in the face to Jackson to say that Goff is a better passer. Maybe Goff rebounds at some point and gets back on track, but as of now he is struggling. Other than passing yards last season, Goff was worse than Jackson in just about every other passing stat. It should be mentioned that Goff led the NFL in passing attempts last season with 626 passing attempts, accounted for just 22 passing touchdowns (3.5 touchdown pass %), 16 interceptions (2.6 interception %), and 86.5 QB Rating. In contrast, Lamar Jackson threw 401 times for 36 passing touchdowns (9.0 touchdown pass %), 6 interceptions (1.5 interception %), and 113.3 QB Rating. Sure Jackson's athleticism helped a bit, but those numbers are nowhere near comparable. Jackson is so far ahead, I don't see how you can even make that argument. Early on during Goff's struggles this past year much of it was blamed on the OL, but I'll just mention that Goff was only sacked 22 times this past season (3.4% of his dropbacks- Lowest in his career). Yet Goff last season was top 5 in the league in interceptions thrown from a clean pocket. Edited January 14, 2020 by tyler735 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolsurebro Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 13 minutes ago, tyler735 said: The fact that you are arguing that Goff is a better passer after what he has looked like in his past 25 or so games must be a joke. Goff has not looked good for an extended period of time now, and at this point it is a slap in the face to Jackson to say that Goff is a better passer. Maybe Goff rebounds at some point and gets back on track, but as of now he is struggling. Other than passing yards last season, Goff was worse than Jackson in just about every other passing stat. It should be mentioned that Goff led the NFL in passing attempts last season with 626 passing attempts, accounted for just 22 passing touchdowns (3.5 touchdown pass %), 16 interceptions (2.6 interception %), and 86.5 QB Rating. In contrast, Lamar Jackson threw 401 times for 36 passing touchdowns (9.0 touchdown pass %), 6 interceptions (1.5 interception %), and 113.3 QB Rating. Sure Jackson's athleticism helped a bit, but those numbers are nowhere near comparable. Jackson is so far ahead, I don't see how you can even make that argument. Early on during Goff's struggles this past year much of it was blamed on the OL, but I'll just mention that Goff was only sacked 22 times this past season (3.4% of his dropbacks- Lowest in his career). Yet Goff last season was top 5 in the league in interceptions thrown from a clean pocket. Well if individual stats are everything then Lamar Jackson is the best QB in the league as of 2019. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 30 minutes ago, lolsurebro said: The fact that you guys are arguing that Lamar is a better passer/QB than Goff must be a joke. It's not a joke, it's a fact: Passing Advanced Passing Rk Player Year QBrec Att Cmp% Y/A+ NY/A+ AY/A+ ANY/A+ Cmp%+ TD%+ Int%+ Sack%+ Rate+ 1 Jared Goff 2019 9-7-0 626 62.9 102 110 97 103 95 89 96 124 93 2 Lamar Jackson 2019 13-2-0 401 66.1 110 114 124 126 107 147 113 110 130 This is Lamar Jackson's first full year as a starter, too. "Oh but what about Goff's first full year under McVay!??": Passing Advanced Passing Rk Player Year QBrec Att Cmp% Y/A+ NY/A+ AY/A+ ANY/A+ Cmp%+ TD%+ Int%+ Sack%+ Rate+ 1 Jared Goff 2017 11-4-0 477 62.1 116 118 120 121 95 116 115 110 114 2 Lamar Jackson 2019 13-2-0 401 66.1 110 114 124 126 107 147 113 110 130 Lamar this year was still better. 1 minute ago, lolsurebro said: Well if individual stats are everything then Lamar Jackson is the best QB in the league as of 2019. He was the best QB in the league in 2019, hence why he's going to be MVP. This isn't rocket science. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolsurebro Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said: It's not a joke, it's a fact: Passing Advanced Passing Rk Player Year QBrec Att Cmp% Y/A+ NY/A+ AY/A+ ANY/A+ Cmp%+ TD%+ Int%+ Sack%+ Rate+ 1 Jared Goff 2019 9-7-0 626 62.9 102 110 97 103 95 89 96 124 93 2 Lamar Jackson 2019 13-2-0 401 66.1 110 114 124 126 107 147 113 110 130 This is Lamar Jackson's first full year as a starter, too. "Oh but what about Goff's first full year under McVay!??": Passing Advanced Passing Rk Player Year QBrec Att Cmp% Y/A+ NY/A+ AY/A+ ANY/A+ Cmp%+ TD%+ Int%+ Sack%+ Rate+ 1 Jared Goff 2017 11-4-0 477 62.1 116 118 120 121 95 116 115 110 114 2 Lamar Jackson 2019 13-2-0 401 66.1 110 114 124 126 107 147 113 110 130 Lamar this year was still better. He was the best QB in the league in 2019, hence why he's going to be MVP. This isn't rocket science. Getting MVP of 2019 doesn't make him the best quarterback in the league, it means he had the best performance in the league for the year. The two can go hand in hand, but there is a difference. Or are you saying that Lamar Jackson is in fact, a better overall QB than Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees? How about Tom Brady? or Pat Mahomes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFlaccoSeagulls Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, lolsurebro said: Getting MVP of 2019 doesn't make him the best quarterback in the league, it means he had the best performance in the league for the year. The two can go hand in hand, but there is a difference. Or are you saying that Lamar Jackson is in fact, a better overall QB than Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees? How about Tom Brady? or Pat Mahomes? Nothing about Goff now? Cool. Glad we settled that. And in 2019, yes, Lamar was a better QB than all of those guys: Passing Advanced Passing Rk Player Year QBrec Att Cmp% Y/A+ NY/A+ AY/A+ ANY/A+ Cmp%+ TD%+ Int%+ Sack%+ Rate+ 1 Tom Brady 2019 12-4-0 613 60.8 87 94 95 100 87 93 116 118 95 2 Drew Brees 2019 8-3-0 378 74.3 111 120 123 128 138 127 120 127 134 3 Lamar Jackson 2019 13-2-0 401 66.1 110 114 124 126 107 147 113 110 130 4 Patrick Mahomes 2019 11-3-0 484 65.9 120 127 124 129 106 108 121 125 119 5 Aaron Rodgers 2019 13-3-0 569 62.0 95 96 106 106 92 100 126 106 105 6 Russell Wilson 2019 11-5-0 516 66.1 113 107 122 116 107 115 122 87 120 And these are just the passing stats, by the way. A better overall QB includes Lamar's record-setting rushing stats as well. You can clearly see that even on a passing level, he's right there with the elite guys if not better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: Nothing about Goff now? Cool. Glad we settled that. And in 2019, yes, Lamar was a better QB than all of those guys: Passing Advanced Passing Rk Player Year QBrec Att Cmp% Y/A+ NY/A+ AY/A+ ANY/A+ Cmp%+ TD%+ Int%+ Sack%+ Rate+ 1 Tom Brady 2019 12-4-0 613 60.8 87 94 95 100 87 93 116 118 95 2 Drew Brees 2019 8-3-0 378 74.3 111 120 123 128 138 127 120 127 134 3 Lamar Jackson 2019 13-2-0 401 66.1 110 114 124 126 107 147 113 110 130 4 Patrick Mahomes 2019 11-3-0 484 65.9 120 127 124 129 106 108 121 125 119 5 Aaron Rodgers 2019 13-3-0 569 62.0 95 96 106 106 92 100 126 106 105 6 Russell Wilson 2019 11-5-0 516 66.1 113 107 122 116 107 115 122 87 120 And these are just the passing stats, by the way. A better overall QB includes Lamar's record-setting rushing stats as well. You can clearly see that even on a passing level, he's right there with the elite guys if not better. Lamar isn’t better than Wilson at all. You give Wilson, Lamar’s weapons and he’s winning you the SB hands down. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeotheLion Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 8 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said: And in 2019, yes, Lamar was a better QB than all of those guys: Passing Advanced Passing Rk Player Year QBrec Att Cmp% Y/A+ NY/A+ AY/A+ ANY/A+ Cmp%+ TD%+ Int%+ Sack%+ Rate+ 1 Tom Brady 2019 12-4-0 613 60.8 87 94 95 100 87 93 116 118 95 2 Drew Brees 2019 8-3-0 378 74.3 111 120 123 128 138 127 120 127 134 3 Lamar Jackson 2019 13-2-0 401 66.1 110 114 124 126 107 147 113 110 130 4 Patrick Mahomes 2019 11-3-0 484 65.9 120 127 124 129 106 108 121 125 119 5 Aaron Rodgers 2019 13-3-0 569 62.0 95 96 106 106 92 100 126 106 105 6 Russell Wilson 2019 11-5-0 516 66.1 113 107 122 116 107 115 122 87 120 And these are just the passing stats, by the way. A better overall QB includes Lamar's record-setting rushing stats as well. You can clearly see that even on a passing level, he's right there with the elite guys if not better. You cannot just look at advanced stats. It's easier to be more efficient when you throw the ball less. You were highly critical that the Ravens threw too much in the game. If he was on Mahomes'/Wilson level as a passer you would have no problems with that many passing attempts. In fact both of those fanbases hate that they sometimes call too many runs. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 54 minutes ago, lolsurebro said: Well if individual stats are everything then Lamar Jackson is the best QB in the league as of 2019. He is certainly up there with the best. Goff is not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malfatron Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Yeah, i would rather have Lamar than Goff right now 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyler735 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 28 minutes ago, LeotheLion said: You cannot just look at advanced stats. It's easier to be more efficient when you throw the ball less. You were highly critical that the Ravens threw too much in the game. If he was on Mahomes'/Wilson level as a passer you would have no problems with that many passing attempts. In fact both of those fanbases hate that they sometimes call too many runs. Saints fans for years have hated when Sean Payton calls too many passes and abandons the run with one of the best QB's All-Time behind center in Drew Brees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeotheLion Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, tyler735 said: Saints fans for years have hated when Sean Payton calls too many passes and abandons the run with one of the best QB's All-Time behind center in Drew Brees. I didn't mention Brees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirill Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, Malfatron said: Yeah, i would rather have Lamar than Goff right now I'd rather have any scrub QB on a cheap contract than Goff. His payday is one of the worst contracts of all time. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 29 minutes ago, Malfatron said: Yeah, i would rather have Lamar than Goff right now I mean, yeah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 (edited) To me, Lamar isn't currently a Top 5 QB. HOWEVER in 2020 he was, imo, the best QB. I just havent seen enough from Dak to even rank him right now at all. He has had 1 meh year and 1 Excellent year. He showed in the playoffs to some degree he has to continue to improve as a passer. But if he is able to improve from year 2-3 as much as he did year 1-2 no doubt in mind he will belong in the top 5. Right now, I'd put him just outside. Now the thing is what I'm talking about here is QBs over the recent multiple years. (I think 3 years is a fair sample size. You have 2 years either way; good or bad imo) So despite him not playing as well this year I still have Brady, Brees, Rodgers, Wilson, and Mahomes at the top with Watson and Lamar carving out your top 7. While i absolutely had Ben aa a Top 5 guy for a long time, I'd put him around 8-10 range now. This isn't meant to say anything negative about Lamar. I hate that he is a Raven, but he seems like a good person, needs, imo, to work on self composure (all young players do) and needs to keep working hard on his craft. The sky is the limit for this kid. Edited January 14, 2020 by wwhickok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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