Lamar Jackson

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI said:

Lamar isn’t better than Wilson at all. You give Wilson, Lamar’s weapons and he’s winning you the SB hands down. 

I threw in Wilson just because I was comparing him against all of the top 5 QB's currently to see where Lamar's stats rank. 

1 hour ago, LeotheLion said:

You cannot just look at advanced stats. It's easier to be more efficient when you throw the ball less. You were highly critical that the Ravens threw too much in the game. If he was on Mahomes'/Wilson level as a passer you would have no problems with that many passing attempts. In fact both of those fanbases hate that they sometimes call too many runs.

My criticism of the Ravens throwing the ball so much was not an indictment against Lamar Jackson at all. In fact, quite the opposite. My criticism was more that our team and our scheme, created by the coaches, is not pass-friendly. We don't have passing plays that get guys open and give them space to run. Did you see any creativity in our passing concepts against TEN when we spread the defense out? Did you see any quick-hitting passes to guys in space? Any screens? Any pick/rub plays? Any double moves? Nah, it's basic stuff, and we don't have the pass catchers to run that kind of offense.

Lamar is absolutely capable (and one of the best) of throwing inside the pocket. He demonstrated it all year, which is why it's pathetic seeing people on this site INSIST he still cannot pass from the pocket. In fact:

You can throw out the stats and just pick a game this year and watch Lamar as a pocket passer. Watch him go through his reads, move safeties, and make perfect throws to guys for touchdowns. At this point in time, if you still think he's just a scrambler throwing to wide open dudes on his first read (ala Kaepernick), you're just ignorant - and that's the best way I can put it.

[tyler735]

2 hours ago, LeotheLion said:

I didn't mention Brees. 

Doesn't matter. It still shows a flaw in the argument you were trying to make.

Edited January 15, 2020 by tyler735

[VigilantZombie]

I think its naive and ignorant to refuse to admit that Lamar Jackson needs to improve as a passer and that its okay that not everyone is drooling at the mouth for him.

The guy had a great year in a power run offense. It's not "revolutionary" though. It's the same concept of an offense that Colin Kaepernick and RG3 ran. Lamar Jackson just did it better because he is more athletic and got hit a lot less oh and it helps that his OL is FAR superior to that of what Washington had.

It doesnt have to be revolutionary to be impressive. But that entire offense showed its limitations in the playoffs. Jackson was a part of that. He turned the ball over multiple times. He missed throws. But at the same time his receivers dropped like 7-10 passes at least. 

Jackson had an excellent year, his accomplishments should not be diminished by his failures in one game. But the fact is, he DID have a bad game in the playoffs, so did Harbaugh, and the rest of that team and that's okay. It doesnt make them a bad team. It makes Tennessee a better team that day. Baltimore, imo, clearly underestimated Tennessee, the comments made by Earl Thomas show that.

Then you got the comments by Marlon Humphrey after the game which.... I cant imagine anyone in the locker room was pleased with. How this team handled the entire situation start to finish was not a great look. Jackson does have a lot to work on but has also already come a long way.

[LeotheLion]

9 minutes ago, tyler735 said:

Doesn't matter. It still shows a flaw in the argument you were trying to make.

It does matter. Chiefs fans and Seahawks fans hate when their coaches are getting too conservative because it plays against their strengths. Baltimore fans wanted to run because it plays in favor of their strengths. Jackson dropping back to pass isn't an advantage for Baltimore in obvious passing situations. 

[LeotheLion]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

My criticism was more that our team and our scheme, created by the coaches, is not pass-friendly. We don't have passing plays that get guys open and give them space to run. Did you see any creativity in our passing concepts against TEN when we spread the defense out? Did you see any quick-hitting passes to guys in space? Any screens? Any pick/rub plays? Any double moves? Nah, it's basic stuff, and we don't have the pass catchers to run that kind of offense.

I don't agree with most of this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TLWDtTyUik&feature=youtu.be

This guy's breakdowns are some of my favorites for QB play. There were a lot of misses by Lamar in the game. 

[Soko]

1 hour ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

I threw in Wilson just because I was comparing him against all of the top 5 QB's currently to see where Lamar's stats rank. 

My criticism of the Ravens throwing the ball so much was not an indictment against Lamar Jackson at all. In fact, quite the opposite. My criticism was more that our team and our scheme, created by the coaches, is not pass-friendly. We don't have passing plays that get guys open and give them space to run. Did you see any creativity in our passing concepts against TEN when we spread the defense out? Did you see any quick-hitting passes to guys in space? Any screens? Any pick/rub plays? Any double moves? Nah, it's basic stuff, and we don't have the pass catchers to run that kind of offense.

Lamar is absolutely capable (and one of the best) of throwing inside the pocket. He demonstrated it all year, which is why it's pathetic seeing people on this site INSIST he still cannot pass from the pocket. In fact:

You can throw out the stats and just pick a game this year and watch Lamar as a pocket passer. Watch him go through his reads, move safeties, and make perfect throws to guys for touchdowns. At this point in time, if you still think he's just a scrambler throwing to wide open dudes on his first read (ala Kaepernick), you're just ignorant - and that's the best way I can put it.

Lamar is getting disrespected as a passer - some are thinking he throws with Vick-accuracy or something - but he’s not one of the best passers. Playing in a run-heavy offense that *requires* one or more players to have eyes on the QB at all times because of his electric running, is going to open things up in ways that just about anyone else won’t have. That’s not diminishing what Jackson has done this season because he’s taken his QBing ability from pretty mediocre to very good. But it makes no sense to pretend like defenses are playing him the same way they’re playing Mahomes or Watson or Rodgers.

[VigilantZombie]

2 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Lamar is getting disrespected as a passer - some are thinking he throws with Vick-accuracy or something - but he’s not one of the best passers. Playing in a run-heavy offense that *requires* one or more players to have eyes on the QB at all times because of his electric running, is going to open things up in ways that just about anyone else won’t have. That’s not diminishing what Jackson has done this season because he’s taken his QBing ability from pretty mediocre to very good. But it makes no sense to pretend like defenses are playing him the same way they’re playing Mahomes or Watson or Rodgers.

His accuracy is WAY better than Vicks. Vick had a strong arm and almost no accuracy at all. That was his biggest flaw as a QB. That isnt to say Lamar has perfect accuracy.

Having said that this is spot on. Defenses will adjust and learn how to defend the Ravens better and as that happens, Lamar is going to have to be prepared to consistently throw the ball from the pocket. He will get running lanes, its gonna happen, but I suspect itll happen far less in the future than it did this season.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

58 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Lamar is getting disrespected as a passer - some are thinking he throws with Vick-accuracy or something - but he’s not one of the best passers. Playing in a run-heavy offense that *requires* one or more players to have eyes on the QB at all times because of his electric running, is going to open things up in ways that just about anyone else won’t have. That’s not diminishing what Jackson has done this season because he’s taken his QBing ability from pretty mediocre to very good. But it makes no sense to pretend like defenses are playing him the same way they’re playing Mahomes or Watson or Rodgers.

That's fine, that's why the stat up threw as "traditional dropbacks". If by default he gets different treatment because of his athleticism, that's not a reason to ignore how good he is at passing from a traditional dropback.

But let's not pretend teams aren't also spying Watson or Mahomes - both of those guys bail from the pocket regularly.

[Soko]

2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

That's fine, that's why the stat up threw as "traditional dropbacks".

A drop back pass doesn’t mean he’s seeing the same defenses that a Mahomes is seeing.

2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

If by default he gets different treatment because of his athleticism, that's not a reason to ignore how good he is at passing from a traditional dropback.

It is however context one should take note of. If one guy picks a part any defense thrown his way that’s ready for the pass vs another who picks a part a defense that is scared to death of the run, including a QB spy or two - which is more impressive? 

(Rhetorical...I have a feeling I know the answer). 

2 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

But let's not pretend teams aren't also spying Watson or Mahomes - both of those guys bail from the pocket regularly.

Bailing from the pocket = / = requiring a spy. Or two. And neither are remotely close to the threat that Jackson is with their legs.

Using a spy on Mahomes is a waste of a man in coverage, honestly.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

28 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

A drop back pass doesn’t mean he’s seeing the same defenses that a Mahomes is seeing.

You can't seriously punish a guy's statistics because he has the inherent threat of running. Otherwise, we need to be doing the same to EVERY SINGLE mobile QB there is.

28 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

It is however context one should take note of. If one guy picks a part any defense thrown his way that’s ready for the pass vs another who picks a part a defense that is scared to death of the run, including a QB spy or two - which is more impressive? 

Both?

28 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Bailing from the pocket = / = requiring a spy. Or two. And neither are remotely close to the threat that Jackson is with their legs.

No team has used 2 spies on Jackson lol

The point here is that if you're always just going to say Jackson isn't as good of a passer as traditional QB's because teams have to play defense differently against him, that's just stupid IMHO. 

 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, LeotheLion said:

I don't agree with most of this. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TLWDtTyUik&feature=youtu.be

This guy's breakdowns are some of my favorites for QB play. There were a lot of misses by Lamar in the game. 

Counter point: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/01/nfl-ravens-titans-lamar-jackson-film-analysis

[El Ramster]

3 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Counter point: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/01/nfl-ravens-titans-lamar-jackson-film-analysis

What exactly are you countering here? He played bad. He pressed. His stats are those of Dak Prescott. Monster numbers buy with no substance. The Ravens came out flat and were never in the game despite the score being 14-6 at one point. There is no film that will allow bs bias or narrative to support any claim that Jackson played well. 

 

Was it his fault? God no. But that’s just the way the cookie crumbles. QBs get all the praise when they win.. But when they lose they also get all the blame. Not sure what you’re rambling here.. It’s the same thing with Dak! Super empty numbers.. Jackson’s best passes came in the 2 min offense to end the second qtr. 

Where he made some great throws to convert 3rd and Longs. But that drive was the story of the whole game, lots of yards but couldn’t punch it in when it mattered most. 

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

Just now, ITS_RAMMY_PLAYBOI said:

What exactly are you countering here? He played bad. He pressed. His stats are those of Dak Prescott. Monster numbers buy with no substance. The Ravens came out flat and were never in the game despite the score being 14-6 at one point. There is no film that will allow bs bias or narrative to support any claim that Jackson played well. 

 

Was it his fault? God no. But that’s just the way the cookie crumbles. QBs get all the praise when they win.. But when they lose they also get all the blame. Not sure what you’re rambling here.. It’s the same thing with Dak! Super empty numbers.. Jackson’s best passes came in the 2 min offense to end the second qtr. 

Where he made some great throws to convert 3rd and Longs. But that drive was the story of the whole game, lots of yards but couldn’t punch it in when it mattered most. 

if you're not even capable of reading that article and watching the videos with it, don't bother responding.

[El Ramster]

1 minute ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

if you're not even capable of reading that article and watching the videos with it, don't bother responding.

The dude posted a video. And you’re arguing against it. You just said a rebuttal. Did you not watch the game? He was cheeks. What exactly are you arguing here though no cap? You be capping big dawg.

[Soko]

15 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

You can't seriously punish a guy's statistics because he has the inherent threat of running. Otherwise, we need to be doing the same to EVERY SINGLE mobile QB there is.

So let’s just throw context out the window? Let’s not overdramatize things. Sheesh, it’s like saying anything factual (and yes, saying Lamar’s dual threat ability/the Ravens’ run game opens up the passing attack, is factual) that isn’t fellating Lamar Jackson must be “punishment”. 

Why do you think dual threat QBs are a threat? If you don’t slow down your rush to contain them in the pocket, have a QB spy, play zone so the defenders have eyes on the QB - they can gash you with their legs. That’s the whole reason they’re so dangerous. You’d be stupid to just assume everyone plays every QB the same way. And the reason it doesn’t get brought up for Cam, Kaepernick, Vick...is because no one ever tried to refer to them as one of the best passers in the league.

15 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Both?

Lol.

15 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

No team has used 2 spies on Jackson lol

The point here is that if you're always just going to say Jackson isn't as good of a passer as traditional QB's because teams have to play defense differently against him, that's just stupid IMHO. 

I said Jackson isn’t in the top tier of passers in the NFL. That’s a far stretch from what you’re either pretending I said or misunderstood. I didn’t say he wasn’t as good as traditional QBs. He’s just not Mahomes or Rodgers as a passer - which is evidently a trigger.