Lamar Jackson

[LeotheLion]

10 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

Counter point: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/01/nfl-ravens-titans-lamar-jackson-film-analysis

Did you watch the video in my link? I'm not sure exactly what you are countering. 

[lolsurebro]

2 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Lamar is getting disrespected as a passer - some are thinking he throws with Vick-accuracy or something - but he’s not one of the best passers. Playing in a run-heavy offense that *requires* one or more players to have eyes on the QB at all times because of his electric running, is going to open things up in ways that just about anyone else won’t have. That’s not diminishing what Jackson has done this season because he’s taken his QBing ability from pretty mediocre to very good. But it makes no sense to pretend like defenses are playing him the same way they’re playing Mahomes or Watson or Rodgers.

Thank god someone gets it.

People trying to compare Lamar to any of the great pocket QBs is nonsensical.

Lamars threat fundamentally changes the way a defense operates and deploys coverage. He’s not competing against the same schemes.

This is not to take away from what’s he’s done at all, but everybody should expect to see the Titans defense deployed again until Lamar establishes more in the passing game.

Edited January 15, 2020 by lolsurebro

[VigilantZombie]

1 hour ago, lolsurebro said:

Thank god someone gets it.

People trying to compare Lamar to any of the great pocket QBs is nonsensical.

Lamars threat fundamentally changes the way a defense operates and deploys coverage. He’s not competing against the same schemes.

This is not to take away from what’s he’s done at all, but everybody should expect to see the Titans defense deployed again until Lamar establishes more in the passing game.

 That's exactly right and of the thing is what makes Lamar great is well what makes Lamar great but it's not what makes other quarterbacks great.

That does not as I've said before have to be a negative thing but to sit here and say that he doesn't need to improve in other areas and that is not an attempt to compare him to anybody.  However its just the reality of him as an individual player I think that's naive.

Having said that as I said before he improved a 100% from year one to year 2 if he can improve another 100% from year 2 to year 3 people would definitely start looking at him even more different in a positive way.

I don't know if that will happen and it will not make me think West of his accomplishments this year I cannot say 1 way or another if it will alter what I think about him over all

Edited January 15, 2020 by wwhickok

[wackywabbit]

Is the defense the Titans deployed the new "blueprint the Chargers put out"? Because if so, Lamar is going to work all offseason to come back and crush it.

Keep doubting this kid. Those of us who said he was special pre-draft will keep reaping the booms. 

Edited January 15, 2020 by wackywabbit

[VigilantZombie]

Just now, wackywabbit said:

Is the defense the Titans deployed the new "blueprint the Chargers put out"? Because if so, Lamar is going to work all offseason to come back and crush it. Keep underestimating this kid. 

 I do know that some people are  Under estimating him I really don't think it's fair to make a blanket statement suggesting everyone is underestimating him just by questioning his ability and I'm not saying that's what you are doing I'm just speaking generally here.

Idk if what the Titans did is the "blue print",  The Titan still got ran on and what happened in that game really is that the titans got an early lead and it forest the mahr Jackson and that oftens into a position where they had to passable that is not what that office is built for I don't care what his passing stats work this year you can not sit here and tell me that that off and is specifically designed for anything other than a power run all sense that is what it is it is complimentary passing but it is a power run offense.

They're not built to be a prolific passing team.  It also does not help when your dam wide receivers can't catch a cold. So in this game the titans got turn over us got the Baltimore Ravens out of their game plan dictated the game with their own running game. More Jackson can do whatever he wants this off season but in that same scenario next season what is going to matter is whether or not he is improved as a passing quarterback whether or not they've done enough to improve the target in which hes throwing too because if those things are still not improved the results are going to be the same

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

34 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

Is the defense the Titans deployed the new "blueprint the Chargers put out"? Because if so, Lamar is going to work all offseason to come back and crush it.

Keep doubting this kid. Those of us who said he was special pre-draft will keep reaping the booms. 

The new blueprint for beating Lamar is "have everything go against the Ravens and hope their coaches abandon their game plan".

Every team is capable of doing it!

[wackywabbit]

33 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

 I do know that some people are  Under estimating him I really don't think it's fair to make a blanket statement suggesting everyone is underestimating him just by questioning his ability and I'm not saying that's what you are doing I'm just speaking generally here.

Idk if what the Titans did is the "blue print",  The Titan still got ran on and what happened in that game really is that the titans got an early lead and it forest the mahr Jackson and that oftens into a position where they had to passable that is not what that office is built for I don't care what his passing stats work this year you can not sit here and tell me that that off and is specifically designed for anything other than a power run all sense that is what it is it is complimentary passing but it is a power run offense.

They're not built to be a prolific passing team.  It also does not help when your dam wide receivers can't catch a cold. So in this game the titans got turn over us got the Baltimore Ravens out of their game plan dictated the game with their own running game. More Jackson can do whatever he wants this off season but in that same scenario next season what is going to matter is whether or not he is improved as a passing quarterback whether or not they've done enough to improve the target in which hes throwing too because if those things are still not improved the results are going to be the same

We've seen Lamar come back and score 2 TDs within the first half 2 minute warning with no timeouts against Cleveland in week 16. Even in the Titans game, after going down 14-0, Lamar almost brought i back to 14-10 before the half, but ran out of time/came up short against the Titans. 

Being down multiple touchdowns is not some magic weakness of a QB that makes them more likely to lose. Being down multiple TDs is just a bad thing. You shouldn't be planning to come back from multiple TDs. I don't care that Mahomes did it just now or that in one SB run Brady did it against the Falcons. Those were rare events. Like Joe Flacco having the greatest playoff run of most of our lifetimes. I would bet against both of those QBs down multiple TDs in a playoff game. If you are down multiple TDs, you will likely lose the game. It doesn't matter who the QB is. 

Also, did Lamar NOT do exactly the bold from year 1 to year 2? Did you not watch this season?

[SalvadorsDeli]

I think trying to separate Lamar the runner from Lamar the passer is obviously a fool's errand. Of course his running ability influences his passing ability. It's part of what makes him such a unique and awesome player. People overcorrect on this point all the time and pretend that Lamar can't actually work from the pocket of course, but he's dangerous precisely because he can do more than just that. He's not unique in that sense - is Russel Wilson the same QB without without his magic escapability? Hell, is prime Ben Roethlisberger? Of course not. He's just a historically great runner from the QB position, and it certainly impacts the other parts of his game. 

56 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

Is the defense the Titans deployed the new "blueprint the Chargers put out"? Because if so, Lamar is going to work all offseason to come back and crush it.

Keep doubting this kid. Those of us who said he was special pre-draft will keep reaping the booms. 

I understand the point you're making and I agree to an extent, but I don't even think comparing this to the Chargers game is fair to Lamar at all to be honest.

We had good reason to believe Lamar would learn and improve from that game - and we we were right - but it's also true that the Chargers made him look like he didn't belong on an NFL roster for large parts of that game. This Titans game - huge upset or not - just wasn't the same sort of situation. People are pretending his gaudy volume stats are just a result of garbage time but even that isn't true. We abandoned the run way too early (which we didn't need to and shouldn't have done) and put it all on Lamar pretty much from the very start of the game... and yet we were able to move the ball pretty consistently at will from the very start. There were only 2 drives in the entire game where we didn't make it into Titans territory, and on one of those, Lamar threw a TD strike that was dropped.That doesn't mean it wasn't a mistake to abandon the run, but it seems like people are taking that to mean that it's a mistake to put the ball in Lamar's hands, rather than it being more a reflection of the fact that our running backs are better than our receivers and it was dumb to take one of those groups out of the game. 

This wasn't a situation where the Titans shut down Lamar... it was just a game of margins where the big plays went their way. Andrews bobbling a pass in his hands turning an opening drive we were rolling on into an INT. Us getting stopped on short yardage 4th downs for the first time all year - credit to the Titans on that for sure given the push they got on the D-Line, but not exactly a Lamar mistake. 6 drops from our mediocre receivers, including Seth Roberts dropping a 75 yard touchdown that could have changed the entire game. Lamar was a part of our problems with 2 awful 3rd quarter turnovers but those weren't the original sins of the game and they were individual errors rather than something emblematic of what he had otherwise done on the night. 

If the Titans blueprint was anything, it was to play a nearly perfect game, and then also count on having every break go your way. That'll happen from time to time, and it buried us on Saturday... but we don't need to over-analyze what really was just a perfect storm for them. 

 

Edited January 15, 2020 by BaltimoreTerp

[VigilantZombie]

First of all, Mahomes did it because Bill O Brien is a moron. I believe completely if they just punt that ball away, KC goes on to lose that game but we will never know.

I dont 7understand your last sentence. I acknowledged that he improved from Year 1 to Year 2 significantly. But that DOES NOT mean he doesnt still need to improve as a passing QB. I get it, everyone wants to crown this guy the best QB in the league, first ballot HOF, etc. The fact is he DOES still need to improve and I stated very clearly that if he can improve as much from yr 2 to yr 3 as he did from 1 to 2 that people would look at him very different as a passing QB. I'm sorry that people arent bowing down to the idea Lamar is an elite passing QB, but imo, he isnt, not yet. That doesnt mean he did do a helluva job passing the ball and rushing the ball this season because he did but theres plenty of room for improvement .

My goal here isnt to in any way make a negative comment about Lamar. This loss isnt solely upon his shoulders. He is gonna be a great player for years to come imo. I just feel that he hasnt reached the peak of his abilities yet.

Edited January 15, 2020 by wwhickok

[frenchie]

12 hours ago, AntonChigurh said:

Lamar due to certain factors outside if his control will always be held to some arbitrary godlike standard 

The media put him on the pedestal; get mad at them.

12 hours ago, AntonChigurh said:

I feel bad for lamar, people just want to attack him just to attack him

Just as they do to Cousins, Trubisky, Mayfield, Goff, and a plethora of others...  Have you not noticed the 'Tom Brady isn't good anymore' celebration that has been going on for the last couple months now?  Get out of your bubble.

The media, for the most part has been borderline sycophantic in regards to Jackson; If you want to listen to people compliment him all day long, turn on ESPN...

Jackson seems like a cool dude, I admit, he impressed me; he had a great season and is hands down the MVP this year; but people have valid concerns about his style of play, and for whatever reason it has become verboten to bring it up.  Even the slightest criticism directed toward Jackson is taken as some sort of injustice; it's laughable.

 

On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2020 at 2:12 PM, Tk3 said:

I think the most irritating thing about it is there is a significant faction of people who are actively rooting for him to fail - look for him to fail - and after a long season of not only succeeding, but exceeding, people take the opportunity of a failed playoff game to try to detract from him as a player on the whole

Ever stop and listen to some of the hateful language used to belittle Kirk Cousins and Carson Wentz?

How do you feel about the contempt people seem to have for Baker Mayfield and Mitch Trubisky?

And that's just the national media; I'm not even getting into the online trolls...  Ever hear of Tim Tebow, and all the lovely things said about him?  Steven A. Smith called him 'garbage' on national television after winning a playoff game.  If anyone said anything close to that about Jackson, they'd be immediately fired...

[wackywabbit]

9 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

First of all, Mahomes did it because Bill O Brien is a moron. I believe completely if they just punt that ball away, KC goes on to lose that game but we will never know.

I dont 7understand your last sentence. I acknowledged that he improved from Year 1 to Year 2 significantly. But that DOES NOT mean he doesnt still need to improve as a passing QB. I get it, everyone wants to crown this guy the best QB in the league, first ballot HOF, etc. The fact is he DOES still need to improve and I stated very clearly that if he can improve as much from yr 2 to yr 3 as he did from 1 to 2 that people would look at him very different as a passing QB. I'm sorry that people arent bowing down to the idea Lamar is an elite passing QB, but imo, he isnt, not yet. That doesnt mean he did do a helluva job passing the ball and rushing the ball this season because he did but theres plenty of room for improvement .

My goal here isnt to in any way make a negative comment about Lamar. This loss isnt solely upon his shoulders. He is gonna be a great player for years to come imo. I just feel that he hasnt reached the peak of his abilities yet.

If you want to get to the nuanced disagreement here, there isn't THAT much better Lamar can be. He was/is historically great. He put up the Xth best season for an NFL player ever. You can debate what X is, but you can be at any level up to 1 and not be guaranteed a super bowl. He could be worse and they could still advance farther. Any Ravens who know what they are talking about will tell you that 2012 Ravens team was not as strong/talented as the 2011 team. Joe Flacco certainly didn't improve much as a player after about his second season. There is always a level of variance in terms of the team you put out and how far they reach in a single game elimination playoff.

Edited January 15, 2020 by wackywabbit

[VigilantZombie]

1 minute ago, wackywabbit said:

If you want to get to the nuanced disagreement here, there isn't THAT much better Lamar can be. He was/is historically great. He put up the Xth best season for an NFL player ever. You can debate what X is, but you can be at any level up to 1 and not be guaranteed a super bowl. He could be worse and they could still advance farther. Any Ravens who know what they are talking about will tell you that 2012 Ravens team was not as strong/talented as the 2011 team. There is always a level of variance in terms of the team you put out and how far they reach in a single game elimination playoff.

Do you believe Lamar Jackson has room for improvement as a passer?

[wackywabbit]

2 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

Do you believe Lamar Jackson has room for improvement as a passer?

I believe Lamar "MAY" have had his best overall season and that that statement does not put any ceiling on how far his team could go in the future.

Lamar's passing looked pretty sharp to me. Getting him more viable receivers will probably have more of an impact going forward than him changing.

Edited January 15, 2020 by wackywabbit

[DannyB]

1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

 That's exactly right and of the thing is what makes Lamar great is well what makes Lamar great but it's not what makes other quarterbacks great and a that does not as I've said before have to be a negative thing but to sit here and say that he doesn't need to improve in other areas and that is not an attempt to compare him to anybody but just the reality of him as an individual player I think that's naive.

Just what in the living hell were you thinking making this one single sentence??

I...think I agree with you? But I can't really tell.

[VigilantZombie]

2 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

I believe Lamar "MAY" have had his best overall season and that that statement does not put any ceiling on how far his team could go in the future.

Lamar's passing looked pretty sharp to me. Getting him more viable receivers will probably have more of an impact going forward than him changing.

You didn't answer my question. I think you think I'm trying slight Lamar Jackson.

Let me ask it this way. Do you believe Lamar Jackson can improve?