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Lamar Jackson


Slingin' Sammy

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20 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

There are definitely some consistents in this league. A Payton or Reid offense is going to be at worst a decent one. 

The long term question I have with Lamar isn't so much defenses figuring it out, but more about how much of a decline in athletic ability is it going to take to significantly impact the offense, and how long is it going to take.

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1 hour ago, Jakuvious said:

These topics for Mahomes were all over the forum, Twitter, ESPN, etc. a year ago, when he was the news. It was a season and offseason of threads and arguments about if he could sustain the level of play, how much and when would he drop off, was his MVP season comparable to Marion's early season, how does he compare to early Rodgers and early Marino, is he better or worse than Brees (this one was all over the place with the MVP debate), etc. Those arguments happened, that criticism happened. For the few true Mahomes haters, those arguments are still happening. So even if Jackson repeats next year, I can tell you, there will be holdouts saying he was never good in the first place. But for most, the rankings and opinions on Mahomes have settled as he continued to look like Mahomes this year, so there's less to fight about there, now.

You just notice these things more with Jackson as a Ravens fan. I noticed them more last year with Mahomes as a Chiefs fan. But they happen with anyone who blows up like this. And the truth is, there's good reason for it. A lot of players explode and then fade away. Sometimes for obvious reasons, sometimes for less obvious ones. So the kind of football fans that are going to be on a forum like this, in particular, have been trained to be skeptical, and are just naturally going to look for why things won't stay the way that they are.

I get that we Ravens' fans notice more said about Jackson. But as soon as Mahomes had like 6-10 starts in 2018 there was universal (or at least as universal as anything gets) consensus that Mahomes is a stud. The only debate after a season of starts was whether he could sustain a peak year HOFer pace. Which.. apparently, yes. Jackson is still different because, after he saved a 4-5 season as a 21 year old rookie into a 10-6 division title season and then had a bad game against a team that would have been the 1 seed if he himself didn't beat them, we had to justify even considering him the Ravens' future at QB moving forward. Mahomes' breakout (outside his one amazing start as a rookie) was coming from a place of little to no data of him as an NFL starter. People watched Lamar as a rookie, made up their mind about his entire career, and are still holding on to that judgement. People don't like to admit they were wrong, and therefore Lamar's breakout season is having more push-back. This is a quantifiable phenomenon. It's a stone-cold fact that the team that won the division and went 6-1 with their new QB had the third best betting odds to win their division. It's also a fact that Lamar was't given a prime-time game until a SNF game in week 9 that had a flex out option, and only 3 total. 

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19 minutes ago, Jlowe22 said:

The long term question I have with Lamar isn't so much defenses figuring it out, but more about how much of a decline in athletic ability is it going to take to significantly impact the offense, and how long is it going to take.

I’m surprised teams aren’t playing Lamar more like they played Kaepernick, honestly. Every fake, every read option, someone needs to be making contact with Jackson.

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36 minutes ago, candyman93 said:

Who cares if this doesn’t last long? Nothing lasts long.

 

Ride this boat into the rocks.

100%. Ride it wherever it goes. 

29 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

I’m surprised teams aren’t playing Lamar more like they played Kaepernick, honestly. Every fake, every read option, someone needs to be making contact with Jackson.

someone's going to be giving up a 40+ yard run to Mark Ingram/Gus Edwards

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7 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

someone's going to be giving up a 40+ yard run to Mark Ingram/Gus Edwards

I’m not thinking of the outside pitch plays, more the read-option where Lamar reads the DE and either keeps it outside the tackle or hands it to the RB to let him run it up the middle. No reason not to put a lick on the QB when that happens. 

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8 hours ago, CP3MVP said:

We could run the ball fine that year, it still didn’t matter, Passing is way more important anyway. And that’s the GOAT NFL offense.

Same thing, if you told people in November of 2007 what would happen in the Super Bowl they would question your knowledge of the sport.

1. True. But we also can pass the ball. You don’t have an elite offense unless you can do both. My point is simply that the thing that made that team so special and dominant was that Brady/Moss connection and those other weapons stacked on top of it. 

2. Correct. For now. We will see if a changing of the guard happens after this season. As it stands that’s projected to change, but still enough football left to be played.

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10 hours ago, lolsurebro said:

So, I watched the Rams/Ravens game and it was particularly interesting to see how Lamars run threat altered the Rams' defense.

It looked like most of the night, the Rams were running zone coverage. Which seemed to allow a TE to cut across the field and get between two defenders with 3-5 yards on either side, quite frequently. And to stop Donald, the Ravens double teamed him all night long (which is what everyone does against Donald.)

It really seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario when playing the Ravens. If you run man-to-man, Lamar/Ingram is going to run it, and hard at that. The o-line seems really good about opening things up. So if you run zone, you're giving up short passes to huge TE who can break 1 defender tackles and pick up 5-15 yards a throw.

For all of those out there that are playbook-minded, how do you stop their attack? I keep seeing people say he will get figured out but nobody will explain anything beyond that.

I said in the niners forum I double spy him and play man behind. 

One lb spies and is aggressive in his play. His job is to shoot the gap once the OL engages their blocks

The other spy is a FS who is playing 7 yards off the Los and is more of a traditional spy. 

SS mans up the RB in a very stacked box. Niners corners are very very good in covering deep routes and I'm not concerned with the splash plays in the passing game if I am limiting their rushing attack 

Man coverage is something he doesn't see often and I want to mix and match man and zone but mainly I am going to give him a healthy dose of man with a stacked box and defenders all around him. Cleveland was able to get pressure on him and he missed a lot of throws. He was not good in that game. 

His ball placement is streaky. His throwing motion is somewhat unrepeatable when he tries to go fast, but he's done a good job of slowing down his mechanics this year and that's made it more repeatable and his ball placement better. I want the internal clock in his head to speed up and for him to get out of sync early. That, plus tight man coverage should make him hold onto the ball and let the gold standard (49ers defensive line) get after him 

7 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Lamar Jackson “works hard” so he won’t get figured out. As if no one else in the league works hard LMAO. 

Kaepernick didn't work hard with his brain. All the 'hard work' he did was power lifting. No one said hes the only one working hard but rather he's the only one focusing on the mental part of the game more than the physical part of the game. Cam Vick kaep clearly just thought they could show up, like they had done their whole life, and they would be the best at their position. Not how it works. 

Let's not then this into a Kaepernick thread. 

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31 minutes ago, N4L said:

I said in the niners forum I double spy him and play man behind. 

One lb spies and is aggressive in his play. His job is to shoot the gap once the OL engages their blocks

The other spy is a FS who is playing 7 yards off the Los and is more of a traditional spy. 

SS mans up the RB in a very stacked box. Niners corners are very very good in covering deep routes and I'm not concerned with the splash plays in the passing game if I am limiting their rushing attack 

Man coverage is something he doesn't see often and I want to mix and match man and zone but mainly I am going to give him a healthy dose of man with a stacked box and defenders all around him. Cleveland was able to get pressure on him and he missed a lot of throws. He was not good in that game. 

His ball placement is streaky. His throwing motion is somewhat unrepeatable when he tries to go fast, but he's done a good job of slowing down his mechanics this year and that's made it more repeatable and his ball placement better. I want the internal clock in his head to speed up and for him to get out of sync early. That, plus tight man coverage should make him hold onto the ball and let the gold standard (49ers defensive line) get after him 

And so what about with three tight ends on the field?

Sure against the Rams we used more multi-receiver sets. But with three tight ends on the field how are you double spying Lamar while these guys have to execute their responsibilities against the run and pass? Or are these two guys occupying Jackson and letting the tight ends carve up the defense like he did against NE?

Edited by diamondbull424
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33 minutes ago, N4L said:

I said in the niners forum I double spy him and play man behind. 

One lb spies and is aggressive in his play. His job is to shoot the gap once the OL engages their blocks

The other spy is a FS who is playing 7 yards off the Los and is more of a traditional spy. 

SS mans up the RB in a very stacked box. Niners corners are very very good in covering deep routes and I'm not concerned with the splash plays in the passing game if I am limiting their rushing attack 

Man coverage is something he doesn't see often and I want to mix and match man and zone but mainly I am going to give him a healthy dose of man with a stacked box and defenders all around him. Cleveland was able to get pressure on him and he missed a lot of throws. He was not good in that game. 

His ball placement is streaky. His throwing motion is somewhat unrepeatable when he tries to go fast, but he's done a good job of slowing down his mechanics this year and that's made it more repeatable and his ball placement better. I want the internal clock in his head to speed up and for him to get out of sync early. That, plus tight man coverage should make him hold onto the ball and let the gold standard (49ers defensive line) get after him 

Kaepernick didn't work hard with his brain. All the 'hard work' he did was power lifting. No one said hes the only one working hard but rather he's the only one focusing on the mental part of the game more than the physical part of the game. Cam Vick kaep clearly just thought they could show up, like they had done their whole life, and they would be the best at their position. Not how it works. 

Let's not then this into a Kaepernick thread. 

Shocked Doc Rivers GIF

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8 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Lamar Jackson “works hard” so he won’t get figured out. As if no one else in the league works hard LMAO. 

Players work harder than others. You cant tell me Josh Gordon is a harder worker than Ray Lewis. Who knows if he will get figured out but Lamars work ethic has been noted but theres stories of players hating the game but show up just to collect paychecks because theyre good at it. Then there's guys like Joe Flacco who only put in the time that was needed and treated it like a 9-5 job.

Then there's guys like Ray Lewis, Brady, Manning etc whos whole life is basically dedicated to football. Lamar seems to be one of those guys who's life is basically football, there's been several reports and stories about how he's worked overtime in the off season to improve his footwork and passing abilities and how football is important for him. And those reports seem to be true, the jump he's made in his passing ability has been ridiculous, I watched every game last season and I was not one of those fans that thought he was going to be a success after last season he was missing wide open guys at times I thought he at least needed 2 more years to be a decent passer and there was a solid chance he couldve been a bust

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7 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

And so what about with three tight ends on the field?

Sure against the Rams we used more multi-receiver sets. But with three tight ends on the field how are you double spying Lamar while these guys have to execute their responsibilities against the run and pass? Or are these two guys occupying Jackson and letting the tight ends carve up the defense like he did against NE?

I am double spying him then playing man against everyone else in zero coverage. 

The TEs get guarded like everyoneone else, by a defender in man coverage. Would be combination of a SS and good coverage LBs

Also, my second spy, the FS playing 7ish yards off the LOS would be looking to undercut routes deeper than he is. He wouldn't drop and get depth and wouldn't stray too much to either side until Lamar committed to run/rolled out to one side 

I don't see why that's a problem if they decide to run the ball. 

6 minutes ago, PapaShogun said:

Shocked Doc Rivers GIF

When Blane gabbert took over as the starter, there was a leak from the coaching staff that said the amount of film Blane was watching at home was 'infinately more' than what kaep was watching because kaep wasn't watching ANY film at home. ZERO

The tablets provided by the team track what you watch, how many times you watch it, what time you watch it. He wasn't studying at home and he never learned to read a defense. Do you dispute the last part? 

Again, let's not turn this thread into a kaep thread, but Lamar made more progress as a passer in one off-season than kaep did in his entire career. His mechanics got worse as he lost flexibility (due to the power lifting). Lamar's mechanics have improved dramatically. 

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13 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

And so what about with three tight ends on the field?

Sure against the Rams we used more multi-receiver sets. But with three tight ends on the field how are you double spying Lamar while these guys have to execute their responsibilities against the run and pass? Or are these two guys occupying Jackson and letting the tight ends carve up the defense like he did against NE?

Sshhh. Watching our Tight Ends torch Lamar's spies is so fun. Dude even wants to bring the FS down near the LOS, you know who will appreciate that ;).

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