Let's give credit to Arizona Cardinals

[ET80]

I'll admit, I was wrong on Rosen v Murray. It's still too early to call the Cardinals in general a success story, but the pivot from Rosen to Murray was a good move. 

[Forge]

The Cardinals have been much, much better than I anticipated this year, and far more competitive. I honestly thought that they were again going to be in the running for the #1 overall pick, and they really aren't close to that. I don't know how close they are to being a real contender, but things turn around quick. I'm also not sold on KK based on his in game decisions and moves, but the team is competitive and plays hard. They just need better talent in a few places. 

[11sanchez11]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

Pretty impressive when you consider that in that time frame they have played the 49er defense twice as well. 

And the Saints who actually dominated that game defensively. I think mostly cause the crowd was screwing up the oline so badly.

[Breesus mode]

11 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

And the Saints who actually dominated that game defensively. I think mostly cause the crowd was screwing up the oline so badly.

I know its weird, but our defense is actually really solid

[HoboRocket]

40 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

Well it wasn't that bold because Rosen sucks. 

Also there were definitely people that thought Rosen would be better and thought Murray would bust. 

I still can't believe people thought Rosen was a good prospect. 

I did. I still can't believe that he's been as bad as he has been. I suppose I overrated the Texas Tech game (one of the biggest comebacks in the history of the sport). I knew there were concerns about him being Jay Cutler 2.0, and to this point, that seems right. But watching his college tape, the ball just EXPLODES out of his hand with how tight his spiral is. I had him rated as a blue-chip prospect early on in the process and eventually cooled on him a little, but I still ultimately had him as the third QB in the class. His accuracy in college was consistently good to great, and that was while taking a beating on virtually every play. I didn't think he was Jay Cutler because he'd get beaten up so badly, but always got back up and kept slinging the ball. You don't play behind that UCLA offensive line and play as effectively as he did if you don't love football. But I guess he might not have, and just was trying to get the money? That's all I can think of. And seriously, that Texas Tech game was legendary. They were down by so much, but he brought them right back and showed some fire. A+ arm talent as far as his range with the football and accuracy, A+ toughness as a prospect. That sold me enough to rate him as a blue-chip prospect initially. I heard enough complaints about his attitude that I eventually dropped him in my rankings, but he still finished the pre-draft process as my 3rd-rated QB in a terrific class.

And then his rookie year with the Cards, he looked very uneven, but he still flashed accuracy similar to how Goff did his rookie season, and he was definitely better than Goff was as a rookie. He led at least one comeback as a rookie. And his supporting cast was just flat-out awful. He lost Kirk to injury, David Johnson was/is a shell of his 2015-16 self, the offensive line was bad to begin with and I believe they lost all five starters to injury at some point or another if I remember correctly. He had Larry Fitz and that's it. Heck, Chad Williams was his second WR at the end of the year, and he's a fringe roster prospect at best. No weapons, no blocking, bad scheme.

I haven't closed the book on Rosen yet, though. I mean, it looks bad, and it is. But he went from defensive-minded Head Coach Steve Wilks, no supporting cast, and no good playcalling to defensive-minded Head Coach Brian Flores, a somehow worse supporting cast with a front office that's actively trying to lose, and once again no good playcalling. I just wish that the Dolphins wouldn't have gotten him if they were planning on tanking. You're actively setting your team up to fail, but you use valuable capital on obtaining a prospect that you know that you can't evaluate properly? 

Obviously, Rosen isn't some instant top-15 QB like I thought he was. But his career has basically been screwed over by circumstance to this point, and nobody can say otherwise. I wouldn't rate him 3rd among the QB prospects from that draft class anymore, because he looks slow processing the NFL game and has poor ability to extend the play, but he'd still probably be a borderline 1st-round prospect in my book due to the dearth of viable options around the league at the QB position. And honestly, if he were drafted in that range, he would have gone to a team better equipped to protect him, and he would have had time to redshirt and adapt to the speed of the NFL game, instead of having to do that against Aaron Donald in year 1 and then getting shipped to a situation where (if he were the permanent starter) he'd have to face a Gregg Williams defense twice a year, a top-5 defense in Buffalo twice a year, and a top-two defense in New England twice a year. With no offensive line. And very few viable weapons.

Still, I have completely flipped my tune about the Kyler Murray pick and I'm willing to admit that I was wrong, not in my evaluation of Kyler Murray, but in both my evaluation of Josh Rosen and my opinion on the Cardinals' choice to give up on a top-10 pick at QB after one year and replace him with another first-round QB.

I still think that it would be very interesting to see Josh Rosen paired with an offensive mind like Kliff Kingsbury that could help to simplify the game for Rosen and just let him utilize his natural throwing ability.

[Split the Sticks]

I have to say I am very impressed with Kyler Murray. He's a real motivator, too (IMO).

Murray is a bit over shadowed by other high profile QBs in the league but one day soon, he'll be a known commodity. I wish him well. 

[Chargers]

18 minutes ago, HoboRocket said:

I did. I still can't believe that he's been as bad as he has been. I suppose I overrated the Texas Tech game (one of the biggest comebacks in the history of the sport). I knew there were concerns about him being Jay Cutler 2.0, and to this point, that seems right. But watching his college tape, the ball just EXPLODES out of his hand with how tight his spiral is. I had him rated as a blue-chip prospect early on in the process and eventually cooled on him a little, but I still ultimately had him as the third QB in the class. His accuracy in college was consistently good to great, and that was while taking a beating on virtually every play. I didn't think he was Jay Cutler because he'd get beaten up so badly, but always got back up and kept slinging the ball. You don't play behind that UCLA offensive line and play as effectively as he did if you don't love football. But I guess he might not have, and just was trying to get the money? That's all I can think of. And seriously, that Texas Tech game was legendary. They were down by so much, but he brought them right back and showed some fire. A+ arm talent as far as his range with the football and accuracy, A+ toughness as a prospect. That sold me enough to rate him as a blue-chip prospect initially. I heard enough complaints about his attitude that I eventually dropped him in my rankings, but he still finished the pre-draft process as my 3rd-rated QB in a terrific class.

And then his rookie year with the Cards, he looked very uneven, but he still flashed accuracy similar to how Goff did his rookie season, and he was definitely better than Goff was as a rookie. He led at least one comeback as a rookie. And his supporting cast was just flat-out awful. He lost Kirk to injury, David Johnson was/is a shell of his 2015-16 self, the offensive line was bad to begin with and I believe they lost all five starters to injury at some point or another if I remember correctly. He had Larry Fitz and that's it. Heck, Chad Williams was his second WR at the end of the year, and he's a fringe roster prospect at best. No weapons, no blocking, bad scheme.

I haven't closed the book on Rosen yet, though. I mean, it looks bad, and it is. But he went from defensive-minded Head Coach Steve Wilks, no supporting cast, and no good playcalling to defensive-minded Head Coach Brian Flores, a somehow worse supporting cast with a front office that's actively trying to lose, and once again no good playcalling. I just wish that the Dolphins wouldn't have gotten him if they were planning on tanking. You're actively setting your team up to fail, but you use valuable capital on obtaining a prospect that you know that you can't evaluate properly? 

Obviously, Rosen isn't some instant top-15 QB like I thought he was. But his career has basically been screwed over by circumstance to this point, and nobody can say otherwise. I wouldn't rate him 3rd among the QB prospects from that draft class anymore, because he looks slow processing the NFL game and has poor ability to extend the play, but he'd still probably be a borderline 1st-round prospect in my book due to the dearth of viable options around the league at the QB position. And honestly, if he were drafted in that range, he would have gone to a team better equipped to protect him, and he would have had time to redshirt and adapt to the speed of the NFL game, instead of having to do that against Aaron Donald in year 1 and then getting shipped to a situation where (if he were the permanent starter) he'd have to face a Gregg Williams defense twice a year, a top-5 defense in Buffalo twice a year, and a top-two defense in New England twice a year. With no offensive line. And very few viable weapons.

Still, I have completely flipped my tune about the Kyler Murray pick and I'm willing to admit that I was wrong, not in my evaluation of Kyler Murray, but in both my evaluation of Josh Rosen and my opinion on the Cardinals' choice to give up on a top-10 pick at QB after one year and replace him with another first-round QB.

I still think that it would be very interesting to see Josh Rosen paired with an offensive mind like Kliff Kingsbury that could help to simplify the game for Rosen and just let him utilize his natural throwing ability.

Very honest post. I thought Rosen would be a young Eli Manning with his history of playing in pro style offense. I was wrong but Rosen still can carve out a long career as a back up if he stays healthy. As Murray, I was a believer from day 1 but even I am surprised at how well he has been this season.

[FinSting]

2 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said:

I think it's way too early to declare the Kliff and Kyler experiments a success....

Give the Cardinals credit, they've won 3 games. Ticker-tape parade and keys to the city for the whole team. 

[viper952]

Murray is definitely not 5-10. 

He looks 5-9 at most with other measured players. He doesn't look any taller than 5-9 physically on the field. I think there was a gentleman's agreement for that flawed measurement.

With that said it makes him more impressive

[TecmoSuperJoe]

11 minutes ago, viper952 said:

Murray is definitely not 5-10. 

He looks 5-9 at most with other measured players. He doesn't look any taller than 5-9 physically on the field. I think there was a gentleman's agreement for that flawed measurement.

With that said it makes him more impressive

He measured 5'10" and 1/8 at the combine. 

[rocky_rams]

26 minutes ago, viper952 said:

Murray is definitely not 5-10. 

He looks 5-9 at most with other measured players. He doesn't look any taller than 5-9 physically on the field. I think there was a gentleman's agreement for that flawed measurement.

With that said it makes him more impressive

What a significant difference 

Edited November 29, 2019 by rocky_rams

[Leoric]

On 11/27/2019 at 2:43 PM, ClutchDJ said:

Folks here were really mad that AZ moved on from a extremely overrated prospect in Rosen to a superior prospect in Kyler.

I think this is where Arizona deserves the most credit. Dumping Rosen as quickly as they did saved them the usual dumpster fire of missing on a first round quarterback. 

[Ragnarok]

The Cards had probably my favorite draft.  I was a fan of Kyler, Byron, Isabella, Z Allen, and Hakeem going into the draft.  

The thing that has been the most impressive to me is how Kliff has seemed very willing to adapt and change his offense.