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GDT Week 13: LAC vs DEN: DREW LOCK EDITION


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6 minutes ago, 1234567 said:

Time will tell. Although I will say: Lock looked much more composed in his first game than Cutler did. Cutler was nervous, shaky and gun shy. Aside from a couple early overthrows, Lock looked surprisingly comfortable and in command. And he took zero sacks today. That really impressed me; he made his reads and if nothing was there, he either threw it away or made a play with his legs. Very unusual for a qb’s first start.  

He looked comfortable and then they took the ball from him for two quarters until it was a tight game, then he comes back and leads the Broncos to what should have been a longer drive that at least kills a bunch of clock and gets 3. That Hamilton drop was awful. 

Edited by BroncoBruin
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The offensive play-calling is like a rollercoaster, we're hot then go cold with scared play-calling. Very schizoid they needs to learn to play to our players strengths, not shy away from them. Funny thing is, when Elway was a player under Dan Reeves, wasn't that part of HIS complaint ??

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Don’t know that Lock could’ve had a better 1st game and I thought Scangerello did an excellent job making it easier for him.

We saw some bumps, but that’s to be expected and we will see more of them.  But if he keeps the confidence and shows more good than bad, he’s Denver’s starter going into next season and hopefully for the next decade.

His feel and smarts were the most impressive.  The best throw he had all game was that dump off to Freeman that only went for a few yards and a ball he only threw 5-7 yards in the air.  He recognized the pressure, had a DE dropping to bat the ball and lofted it accurately...that’s not an easy throw and it takes an understanding of the situation to make it.  We know he has a big arm, but it takes plays like that to make it in the NFL.

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I haven’t read this whole thread...but just wanted to recognize how good of a tackler Kareem Jackson is.  That tackle he had on Mike Williams 1 on 1 30+ yards downfield was such a difficult play.  The tackle he made on Gordon on a screen where he went under the offensive lineman was equally exceptional.  Jackson may not be relevant for Denver with his age and by the time this team competes, but he’s worth all the money Denver gave him.  Terrific player. 

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8 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I haven’t read this whole thread...but just wanted to recognize how good of a tackler Kareem Jackson is.  That tackle he had on Mike Williams 1 on 1 30+ yards downfield was such a difficult play.  The tackle he made on Gordon on a screen where he went under the offensive lineman was equally exceptional.  Jackson may not be relevant for Denver with his age and by the time this team competes, but he’s worth all the money Denver gave him.  Terrific player. 

Couldn’t agree more. Fantastic player that has made a significant impact beyond his play. Sets the tone. Absolute stud 

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5 hours ago, AnAngryAmerican said:

What a POS Fangio is. What horrible, horrible clock management. MCManus has 1 more super bowl rings than Vic the incompetent and he was angry. Rightfully so. 

Bad hire when it was made, worse hire with each passing game. GTFO. 

What’s your beef with Fangio? Genuinely curious. I respect your fanhood and usually know where you’re coming from but I missed the boat on the Fangio situation 

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You guys know how much I want the team to try hard...but we're better off losing in the long run, so we can draft higher and get better talent (much easier on Rd2, maybe an elite player).  Nothing's changed there - I hope we lose out but play hard throughout.  In the end, I'd rather have the 4-12 year and a much higher position, than 6-10. 

Having said that - if we're going to win, I'd much rather it happen this way - because this was a big step in ensuring Elway doesn't commit early draft resources next year to QB.   That would be a massive mistake given who he's linked to.   Honestly, this was as good as anyone could hope to see from Lock - Sutton bailed him out on the first TD (the guy's a freak), and he showed a lot of rookie flaws - but Lock also showed all the traits that, barring a massive meltdown in the next 4 games, will rightfully let Elway & co. give him a 2nd look next year as the starter.   Today wasn't certainly going to show any better than it did.   

Lock's got a lot of work left in order to succeed long-term - as teams get actual game film, they'll see the areas to exploit.   But he also showed why he'd fit in the Scangarelli scheme, and he showed the tools that had scouts intrigued.   A lot of work between now and becoming a starter you feel can go out and carry an O - but that was never a realistic expectation right now, either.   Given the circumstances, Lock did as well as anyone could possibly hope for - far from perfect, but also showed tools and abilities that could translate to sustained success.   He's already surpassed Paxton Lynch in showing a good game (yes the bar is low, but that's how bad it was with Lynch).

Hats off to the D for playing hard without Von (although the lack of pass rush was apparent, that Chargers line is decimated, but we had periods of time where we didn't get enough pressure - still, playing short-handed, it's understandable).   

One side comment - the clock management by the Chargers was just awful.   They played for a tying FG after that miracle catch by Mike Williams - I thought either a miss was coming, or an OT W coming for DEN once LAC went super-conservative (you have the ball on the 30 with 2 mins down 3, think TD to win it, but instead they went don't-lose it - and lost it anyways).   Truly part of the intangible to how that org underperforms below their talent.  Ultimately, the real pressing issue for LAC is Rivers - they've always been win-now with him, but they'll have to think hard to at least get a real QB project on Day 2, if not bring in vet competition - much like Eli in NYG in 2017-8, Rivers is seeing ghosts now - that pick on the screen, and the quick dumpoffs with no pressure, very Eli-esque.   Now, they may go fix-the-OL-and-see-what-Rivers has left - but you have to wonder if they'll go QB no later than Rd 2-3 next year, given what we're seeing with him.  Crazy.

Edited by Broncofan
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11 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

That last play is about as far from John Fox as you can get. 

And “throw it up to Sutton” has an absurd success rate. More of that.

 

I have been saying this all along.  There are four outcomes where the outcomes is in the Broncos favor.  He catches it.  He gets a pass interference call.  It gets picked where you probably were in a position to punt it anyway.  Or, it is incomplete and you start over.  

 

Nonetheless, I thought yesterday was a good win.  However, based on what I saw in the standings it puts out of the top 10 for a draft pick.  Alas, it keeps us out of the basement too in our own division.  In fact, the Broncos are just two games back from the Raiders for second place in the division.  Also, is it conceivable that the Broncos could avoid a losing record if they can win out?  Or, have a winning record during the remaining games?  

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BTW this is a really good analysis of Lock’s day - click the thread to see clips and analysis of his throws.  Waldman ID’s pluses of arm talent (And he rightfully points out it’s not Mahomes level before ppl go there lol) and awillingness to throw downfield.    And that Lock was able to feel pressure and get rid of the ball (usually throwing it away but that’s ok this early). 
 

Big issues with footwork, going on 1st read (or bail) and wanting to see how he reacts to pressure.   The last 2 are not realistic to expect from a rookie yet.   Ideally the footwork improves more quickly because that’s an area that’s been a big issue since college.  Those are the 3 areas that will hurt him long term if it’s not better but again it’s start #1.     Still being a mixed bag is actually a really positive result for a 1st start.  
 

 

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7 hours ago, Broncofan said:

You guys know how much I want the team to try hard...but we're better off losing in the long run,

I know you go on to explain further but I generally agree with this statement except for the fact that I wanted a high pick for a possible qb.  Thats why it was important to get a look at Lock and I for one thought it was admittedly to early to do that but the kid looked alright.  If we can move forward with him I am not really concerned with where we pick and therefore can root for the wins which to me is only natural.  Also that college qb class is not shaping up to be as good as I thought it would be so bap if Lock can continue to sell us .

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3 hours ago, anewdawn said:

I know you go on to explain further but I generally agree with this statement except for the fact that I wanted a high pick for a possible qb.  Thats why it was important to get a look at Lock and I for one thought it was admittedly to early to do that but the kid looked alright.  If we can move forward with him I am not really concerned with where we pick and therefore can root for the wins which to me is only natural.  Also that college qb class is not shaping up to be as good as I thought it would be so bap if Lock can continue to sell us .

Andrew Thomas is a generational LT prospect.   We stayed at 3-13 we'd have a top 4 pick.   That was the dream.  It's dead now.  I've been on record as saying I don't want QB taken next year, not because I'm sold on Lock (I'm still not going to be until next year even if he struggles RoS, no rookie struggles should damn them, but that was as good a start as you could hope to see).   It's passing on Herbert that's my main goal lol.   You are correct that Lock being even just "OK" with clear rookie struggles (but showing flashes) would be enough to stop that thinking alone.

Staying at 4W is still important for draft seeding, though - because hitting on the Rd2 and even Rd3 pick is a lot easier if you are in the 33-40 range than say in the late 40's.  We don't get Risner picking later (remember Cody Ford went just before Risner, I would have gone Risner regardless, but they were the top 2 IOL left).    We certainly weren't getting Sutton picking later in 2018.    And for Rd1, I still think we need a LT first and foremost - and TBH, a guy like Wirfs, or the USC kid Austin Jackson, both look like they could be around 8-12 BPA level picks.      It's why if we got say the 6th pick, I wouldn't have been adverse to trading back to the 10-12 range, to get T and add extra value.  If we stay at 4-12, then we likely pick around 9-12.  5-11, given our SoS, we pick much later with the other 5W teams.    If we start picking in the mid-teens, the next tier of LT-capable talent could go before we pick.  I'd rather have an early enough pick I feel good about them still being there with BPA matching need, than watching them go and then taking a need-based pick that's clearly not BPA (what we clearly did with Bolles over Ramczyk, given the belief that Ramczyk was RT-only - again, just go after Whitworth instead of Leary, and then you don't have that issue, but what's done is done).

So yes, the seeding still matters a lot.   Just not as much as top 5 pick, but it definitely matters - last year's draft speaks to our good fortune in being in an early enough spot that a top tier of talent was available Rd2.   For 2020, it's likely the same concept applies, but with WR, or maybe ILB (always devalued).   We'll see.

Edited by Broncofan
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6 hours ago, French Fan said:

Chargers were 4th in passing defense and lose their 8th games by 7 or less !!!!! The record is not the reflexion of this team 

It's still the Chargers. Rankings mean nothing with them. They could beat the 49ers or Ravens and I wouldn't be surprised. If they got blown out by Miami or Cincy, I still wouldn't be surprised.

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