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Week 2: Monday Night Football: Detroit Lions @ New York Giants

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Flowers is not going to learn a new position in a weeks time. That's a major move. They should have done that in the offseason. Flowers will stay or move to the bench

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4 minutes ago, Acgott said:

Flowers is not going to learn a new position in a weeks time. That's a major move. They should have done that in the offseason. Flowers will stay or move to the bench

At this point, I think Flowers learning on the job and growing into the RT is better than having Hart at RT.

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Frankly, the atrocities on offense boil down to abysmal Tackle play. I'm disappointed and concerned with the fact that the coaches are working with the Tackles every day in camp and failed to recognize the talent level is far below what's required for NFL standards. This means the our issues are far deeper than poor Tackle play. It's a serious mis-evaluation of talent and what it takes to assemble a quality NFL team. What we saw today was DEEPLY concerning.

The good news is we're only ONE game back, and if the coaches can acknowledge their mistake and make some personnel adjustments the season isn't out of reach yet.

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Even when the line blocked, Eli couldn't find the WR. We had two 5 second coverage sacks

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1 hour ago, Acgott said:

Even when the line blocked, Eli couldn't find the WR. We had two 5 second coverage sacks

That's because when the "line" blocked we had extra players helping the putrid o-line. McAdoo talked about this in the post game. It's difficult to get open when you have 3 receivers covered by 7 defenders.

Edited by w4rrior723

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We are always in store for at least a game a season where we can't perform the basics. 

Eli yet again did make errors and mistakes. Problem is that every mistake is critical and magnified  because how little opportunities we create. 

Edited by Kip Smithers

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8 hours ago, Acgott said:

Even when the line blocked, Eli couldn't find the WR. We had two 5 second coverage sacks

It seems a lot of the time the WR are getting no separation, which is insane given the talent at the position. But defenses don't have to respect the run game and with OBJ hobbled, there are zero WR healthy that can get deep. It seems every time the OL makes a positive play, Eli blows it and every time Eli makes a positive play, the WRs blow it. Ugly, ugly, ugly.

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The play calling also has to be looked at. Brett Jones is the smallest and probably the weakest offensive lineman we have.  On the goal line why would Mcadoo run the ball behind Brett? Easy to see why he got the holding penalty.

I also thought going for it on 4th down instead of trying to kick the field goal was stupid. Would not surprise me if Eli held the ball for too long on purpose to get the penalty.

I also thought not even trying to get points at the end of the first half with just 30 seconds left and having three time outs was just gutless on his part.

Mcadoo need to turn over the offensive play calling to Sullivan.

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3 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

The play calling also has to be looked at. Brett Jones is the smallest and probably the weakest offensive lineman we have.  On the goal line why would Mcadoo run the ball behind Brett? Easy to see why he got the holding penalty.

I also thought going for it on 4th down instead of trying to kick the field goal was stupid. Would not surprise me if Eli held the ball for too long on purpose to get the penalty.

I also thought not even trying to get points at the end of the first half with just 30 seconds left and having three time outs was just gutless on his part.

Mcadoo need to turn over the offensive play calling to Sullivan.

I actually supported Mcadoo going for it there. If you don't convert you have the Lions backed up on their 1 against one of the best defenses in the NFL. Maybe a safety happens. And the FG did nothing to change the game. A TD could have. But I agree I think Eli intentionally took the penalty. The crowd wanted them to go for it and lining up like they were going to was their way of appeasing them IMO

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Finally have a few minutes for some more detailed thoughts. Let the rambling commence:

1. I agree with all of you on the play calling / coaching. Said it last night as well but McAdoo has to take a lot of blame here. He did to open his post-game press conference last night but then immediately went to placing blame on other players like Eli. This team is way too talented to look this bad. Yes, the OL blows and it's ruining the whole offense but they are not taking corrective measures to help that. It seems like they run a stretch play with Perkins on 1st down 9 times out of 10. It goes nowhere and ruins the down and distance. We are almost never in 3rd and 3 or less. Gameday management is one this but player development is just as important and there doesn't seem to be any on the offensive side of the ball. 

2. I think Eli Apple is getting unfairly criticized after last night. He got picked on in the Dallas game and played poorly but he had one bad play last night. That's really it. Did he give up a few catches for minor gains? Sure, but he wasn't getting exposed last night. Remember, he's still very young and teams are not going to throw at Jackrabbit or DRC very much so he's going to give up plays here or there just based on the volume of balls coming his way. He is REALLY good in coverage on at least as many plays as he has lapses on. 

3. It didn't seem like it live last night, but looking back the defense played really well. They gave up a bit too much in the ground game, which was surprising but overall they held a legit Lions offense to 257 total yards and they did so without Jackrabbit and BJ Goodson. A rookie UFA played every snap at MLB last night and they held this offense to 257 yards... Think about that. They gave up 3 scoring drives. The first TD drive started at the DET 46 and ended in that bad play by Eli Apple, which was a killer. Their second TD drive started at the NYG 29! And it was after only being off the field for one play. They were on the field for 6 straight minutes by the time they gave up the TD. Finally, Prater hits a ridiculous 56 yard field goal. I can't fault them in this game at all, honestly. 

4. Perkins needs to be benched for Darkwa. I know I'm not alone on this one but it needs to be repeated. He just can't create for himself. He doesn't run with power and he doesn't have great speed so he really is useless without holes to run through. Might as well see what Darkwa has and maybe it forces defenses to respect the run at least a little more. 

5. Evan Engram had a great game. The penalty was annoying, he says it was unintentional. I don't have any reason not to believe him but either way, I'm not gonna kill him for it. Look back at that game. Without him there was essentially zero production on offense. I'm looking forward to seeing him become an even bigger part of this offense, and he needs to be. 

6. Nobody is really talking about it but Darian Thompson made a few BAD plays last night. He is virtually invisible in this defense, and that is by design but if you're being allowed to just drop back and keep everything in front of you, you have to make the big plays when the opportunity arises. The second TD to Ebron is on him. He needs to be able to cover a TE, even a speedier one like Ebron. Then Stafford makes one of his few bad decisions of the night lobbying one up into double coverage and DT makes a terrible play on the ball. Should have been an easy interception with him having deep contain. Instead, the ball is almost caught by the WR who ended up behind him on the play. 

I am usually an optimistic fan, having seen two Giants teams that had looked really bad end up winning the SB. But there is no sugar coating anything here, the Giants have given us literally zero to be optimistic about. Based on what we've seen the second half of last season and the first two games this year, how can we possibly expect this offense to turn it around? The fact is, we're only a game behind the rest of the division so a win next week and this 0-2 start can really be put behind us but I sure won't be going in with any confidence whatsoever. 

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1 hour ago, GMENNATION said:

2. I think Eli Apple is getting unfairly criticized after last night. He got picked on in the Dallas game and played poorly but he had one bad play last night. That's really it. Did he give up a few catches for minor gains? Sure, but he wasn't getting exposed last night. Remember, he's still very young and teams are not going to throw at Jackrabbit or DRC very much so he's going to give up plays here or there just based on the volume of balls coming his way. He is REALLY good in coverage on at least as many plays as he has lapses on. 

 

4. Perkins needs to be benched for Darkwa. I know I'm not alone on this one but it needs to be repeated. He just can't create for himself. He doesn't run with power and he doesn't have great speed so he really is useless without holes to run through. Might as well see what Darkwa has and maybe it forces defenses to respect the run at least a little more. 

5. Evan Engram had a great game. The penalty was annoying, he says it was unintentional. I don't have any reason not to believe him but either way, I'm not gonna kill him for it. Look back at that game. Without him there was essentially zero production on offense. I'm looking forward to seeing him become an even bigger part of this offense, and he needs to be. 

6. Nobody is really talking about it but Darian Thompson made a few BAD plays last night. He is virtually invisible in this defense, and that is by design but if you're being allowed to just drop back and keep everything in front of you, you have to make the big plays when the opportunity arises. The second TD to Ebron is on him. He needs to be able to cover a TE, even a speedier one like Ebron. Then Stafford makes one of his few bad decisions of the night lobbying one up into double coverage and DT makes a terrible play on the ball. Should have been an easy interception with him having deep contain. Instead, the ball is almost caught by the WR who ended up behind him on the play. 

I am usually an optimistic fan, having seen two Giants teams that had looked really bad end up winning the SB. But there is no sugar coating anything here, the Giants have given us literally zero to be optimistic about. Based on what we've seen the second half of last season and the first two games this year, how can we possibly expect this offense to turn it around? The fact is, we're only a game behind the rest of the division so a win next week and this 0-2 start can really be put behind us but I sure won't be going in with any confidence whatsoever. 

On point 2. I agree Eli is taking too much blame. This offensive line is taking it toll on him and starting to turn him into David Carr. Eli is getting sacked the second or third time he touches the ball yet again for the second game in a row. I feel Eli did not get into rhythm till the middle of the third quarter. 

On point 4. If this offensive line could open holes Perkins would be a good player, it can't so I agree with Darkwa is the better option. Just remember he is injury prone.

On point 5. I can't say he had a great game, he needed to hold on to the ball on the play Slay broke up. He will be a weapon, but I can't put great next to his name with that play.

On point 6. Lets not forget he was injured much of last year and still doing a bit of learning.

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2 hours ago, Shockey1979 said:

I actually supported Mcadoo going for it there. If you don't convert you have the Lions backed up on their 1 against one of the best defenses in the NFL. Maybe a safety happens. And the FG did nothing to change the game. A TD could have. But I agree I think Eli intentionally took the penalty. The crowd wanted them to go for it and lining up like they were going to was their way of appeasing them IMO

How does a field goal do nothing? It put you with in a touch down of tying the game. If you fail to convert it is two score game again. There was still plenty of time left, it makes no sense to take points off the board.  There is just as much a chance of Eli throwing a pick 6 as there is of the defense getting a safety.

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2 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

How does a field goal do nothing? It put you with in a touch down of tying the game. If you fail to convert it is two score game again. There was still plenty of time left, it makes no sense to take points off the board.  There is just as much a chance of Eli throwing a pick 6 as there is of the defense getting a safety.

Have you seen our offense? Getting to the red zone is a rarity in itself. We have to take advantage of those few redzone opportunities. Going for it was a must. I don't trust this offense, nor should you, to drive down the length of the field to try and tie the game. 

The defense was great last night for the most part. Got good amount of pressure and despite missing our best corner, our best cover LB and starting MLB we kept the Lions in check. 

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10 minutes ago, Go_Giants said:

How does a field goal do nothing? It put you with in a touch down of tying the game. If you fail to convert it is two score game again. There was still plenty of time left, it makes no sense to take points off the board.  There is just as much a chance of Eli throwing a pick 6 as there is of the defense getting a safety.

I said the FG "did" nothing. We know today kicking it was meaningless and it did nothing to change the game. We don't know what would have happened had they had gone for the TD. Sure you can speculate a pick 6... sure we can speculate a TD, a safety. But at the time I supported Mcadoo going for it and now having revisionist history on our side and knowing the FG did nothing to change the game I know that kicking it was a mistake.

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42 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said:

Have you seen our offense? Getting to the red zone is a rarity in itself. We have to take advantage of those few redzone opportunities. Going for it was a must. I don't trust this offense, nor should you, to drive down the length of the field to try and tie the game. 

The defense was great last night for the most part. Got good amount of pressure and despite missing our best corner, our best cover LB and starting MLB we kept the Lions in check. 

Yes I have seen this offense, I have seen it enough not to trust it  to convert a fourth down.

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