champ11 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, MookieMonstah said: I wouldn't want anything to do with Simmons as an NBA franchise tbh. His inability to hit any sort of jumpers renders him basically useless come playoff time. I'd rather move Reddick and Jrue in seperate deals for some assets and let Hayes develop. He's going to be a stud. That's a pretty closed minded approach since a team that doesn't fit Simmons strengths at all took the eventual NBA champions 7 and easily could have won and the Pelicans need to like...make the playoffs...before worrying about potential playoff matchup issues. But I don't really care to litigate Simmons when it just comes down to "he can't shoot" to people even though he's a really good player right now Moving two guys for meh to decent assets and letting a rim runner develop over taking a talent like Simmons is a take. But like I said Philly isn't gonna trade Simmons at this juncture so it's whatever Edited December 17, 2019 by champ11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 3 hours ago, champ11 said: That's a pretty closed minded approach since a team that doesn't fit Simmons strengths at all took the eventual NBA champions 7 and easily could have won and the Pelicans need to like...make the playoffs...before worrying about potential playoff matchup issues. But I don't really care to litigate Simmons when it just comes down to "he can't shoot" to people even though he's a really good player right now Moving two guys for meh to decent assets and letting a rim runner develop over taking a talent like Simmons is a take. But like I said Philly isn't gonna trade Simmons at this juncture so it's whatever I mean Philly last year fit his strengths pretty well. They had a 5 who can space the floor well, one of the best shooters ever, Butler and Tobias can both play off ball ands hoot. I'm not exactly sure what else you want around him unless you plan on just playing him, Embiid and 3 shooters. Simmons was also pretty freaking bad in the Raptors series but I guess we're going to ignore that for this discussion. Jrue should bring back some decent assets, I'm not sure why you think he's going to be traded for a bag of chips. Reddick could fetch a protected 1st from a contender at the deadline but the Pelicans seem unwilling to move him from what the talking heads have said. Simmons isn't a great fit with Zion and Hayes is going to be very good. If the Pelicans traded for Simmons thats essentially their team for the next 5 years, and its definitely not good enough to win a title. Simmons is a very good player, he's also built horrible for the playoffs because in half court sets he can't shoot and isn't a threat. He's great in transition but isn't a threat to score from the half court, specifically when defenses tighten up come playoff time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, MookieMonstah said: I mean Philly last year fit his strengths pretty well. They had a 5 who can space the floor well, one of the best shooters ever, Butler and Tobias can both play off ball ands hoot. I'm not exactly sure what else you want around him unless you plan on just playing him, Embiid and 3 shooters. Simmons was also pretty freaking bad in the Raptors series but I guess we're going to ignore that for this discussion. Jrue should bring back some decent assets, I'm not sure why you think he's going to be traded for a bag of chips. Reddick could fetch a protected 1st from a contender at the deadline but the Pelicans seem unwilling to move him from what the talking heads have said. Simmons isn't a great fit with Zion and Hayes is going to be very good. If the Pelicans traded for Simmons thats essentially their team for the next 5 years, and its definitely not good enough to win a title. Simmons is a very good player, he's also built horrible for the playoffs because in half court sets he can't shoot and isn't a threat. He's great in transition but isn't a threat to score from the half court, specifically when defenses tighten up come playoff time. Much more likely to win a title with 2 #1 overall pick level talents than whatever else they are potentially working with, tbh. Although there is essentially a 0% chance NO is contending for a title either way. Zion + Simmons is actually a pretty fun/good fit, you would just need a lot of shooting around it. Simmons is 23. I'm telling you if Simmons would be on the table (he wouldn't) that front office takes that deal without pause. You simply don't get franchise cornerstone level pieces for moving non-superstar packages. Criticism of Simmons playoff ceiling is fair but it doesn't take away from the fact that he is a cornerstone piece type player that is special as a defender and playmaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 29 minutes ago, champ11 said: Much more likely to win a title with 2 #1 overall pick level talents than whatever else they are potentially working with, tbh. Although there is essentially a 0% chance NO is contending for a title either way. Zion + Simmons is actually a pretty fun/good fit, you would just need a lot of shooting around it. Simmons is 23. I'm telling you if Simmons would be on the table (he wouldn't) that front office takes that deal without pause. You simply don't get franchise cornerstone level pieces for moving non-superstar packages. Criticism of Simmons playoff ceiling is fair but it doesn't take away from the fact that he is a cornerstone piece type player that is special as a defender and playmaker. Value wise sure, it would be great in 2k. I don't see the fit with Zion. Dumb teams play for regular season championships. Simmons ceiling in the playoffs absolutely needs to be considered, I also think you're downplaying Hayes ceiling. He could be an absolute monster on both ends of the court, he's already shown so much growth defensively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 1 hour ago, MookieMonstah said: They had a 5 who can space the floor well, one of the best shooters ever, Butler and Tobias can both play off ball ands hoot embiid is not a good shooter. even if he was I think he led the nba is post ups per game so he is around the basket a lot. and since jimmy is better than simmons he got most of the PnR stuff leaving Ben playing like Capela in the halfcourt 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 32 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: Value wise sure, it would be great in 2k. I don't see the fit with Zion. Dumb teams play for regular season championships. Simmons ceiling in the playoffs absolutely needs to be considered, I also think you're downplaying Hayes ceiling. He could be an absolute monster on both ends of the court, he's already shown so much growth defensively. Quick look at bball reference tells me that NOP have won 2 playoff series since 2002 lol talking championships when you are a 6 win team or whatever isn't always the move. But even so, Simmons is much more likely to lead an NBA championship team than whatever we are talking about. Blue chip talent. And okay on Hayes, sure. He's a rim runner. Elite role player potential like Capela. You move him to get a talent like Simmons in a second. And agreed with @11sanchez11 in relation to Simmons/Embiid. Simmons has not been in a situation that is built for him. He should be used similarly to Giannis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 35 minutes ago, champ11 said: Quick look at bball reference tells me that NOP have won 2 playoff series since 2002 lol talking championships when you are a 6 win team or whatever isn't always the move. But even so, Simmons is much more likely to lead an NBA championship team than whatever we are talking about. Blue chip talent. And okay on Hayes, sure. He's a rim runner. Elite role player potential like Capela. You move him to get a talent like Simmons in a second. And agreed with @11sanchez11 in relation to Simmons/Embiid. Simmons has not been in a situation that is built for him. He should be used similarly to Giannis. Yeah the Pelicans have sucked, I’m not sure how that’s relevant? You build for championships, not playoff appearances. I just don’t think that move benefits the Pelicans at all. It’d make them a middling 8 seed with no real upside and no real flexibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 5 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: Yeah the Pelicans have sucked, I’m not sure how that’s relevant? You build for championships, not playoff appearances. I just don’t think that move benefits the Pelicans at all. It’d make them a middling 8 seed with no real upside and no real flexibility. Walk before you run. And like I said a couple times - much more likely to build a true contender around a talent like Simmons than some mid first round players/talents. Your disbelief in Simmons has left you in a rough spot in this conversation tbh Zion Williamson (19) and Ben Simmons (23) with a bunch of draft picks is set for plenty of upside. Probably 2 of the top 10 or so building blocks in the NBA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 20 hours ago, Pastor Dillon said: The money isn’t anywhere near being close. yeah lol, I didn't realize Ben was still on his rookie deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 6 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said: yeah lol, I didn't realize Ben was still on his rookie deal yeah i just argued about something that can't happen lol Jamal Murray in the same boat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, champ11 said: Walk before you run. And like I said a couple times - much more likely to build a true contender around a talent like Simmons than some mid first round players/talents. Your disbelief in Simmons has left you in a rough spot in this conversation tbh Zion Williamson (19) and Ben Simmons (23) with a bunch of draft picks is set for plenty of upside. Probably 2 of the top 10 or so building blocks in the NBA. We just have differing opinions on Simmons. Unless he develops a jumper he won’t be great in playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 Tobias Harris and Ben Simmons (after January 15th) for Russell Westbrook and Daniel House Jr. plus a pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 4 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: Tobias Harris and Ben Simmons (after January 15th) for Russell Westbrook and Daniel House Jr. plus a pick. Houston would take that deal in a ******* heartbeat. What's the point for Philly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoleINGout Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, seminoles1 said: Houston would take that deal in a ******* heartbeat. What's the point for Philly? Of course the Rockets would take that. Why would they not? The Sixers get someone who can shoot and play point and at least do something that resembles leadership. Puts them in a more competitive position in the eastern conference to take advantage of their window with Embiid. Some shooting depth behind Josh Richardson who is often injured. Basically it boils down to getting better and winning a championship becomes more attainable. Edited December 20, 2019 by DoleINGout Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seminoles1 Posted December 20, 2019 Share Posted December 20, 2019 24 minutes ago, DoleINGout said: Of course the Rockets would take that. Why would they not? The Sixers get someone who can shoot and play point and at least do something that resembles leadership. Puts them in a more competitive position in the eastern conference to take advantage of their window with Embiid. Some shooting depth behind Josh Richardson who is often injured. Basically it boils down to getting better and winning a championship becomes more attainable. Philly gets a lot worse with this trade. You're crazy. Westbrook is having the worst shooting season ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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