CBrownsman Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 43 minutes ago, BrownLeader said: Hearing a lot of talk ranging from poor OL play to Kitchen's coaching to excuse Mayfield's play this year. They're not good arguments. He's got the league's leading rusher. His #2 RB was the league's leading rusher 2 seasons ago. He's got an all pro #1 WR and a pro bowl #2 WR. Bottom line, he's not playing well enough to QB a team to a winning record, let alone into the playoffs. His recent stretch of 143 w/o a pick was certainly luck if you watched every game. Kitchens is a good OC and a terrible HC. The OL struggles to pass pro really well but other QBs have excelled with less. This year Mayfield is keeping the team from winning more games. Landry & Beckham's skip of the post game press could be a little hint that they've had it with losing games they ought to be winning. For good or bad those two are the main leaders of this team. Even though it will effectively be a divorce, Dorsey needs to find a guy to push or compete with Baker next year. Imo each of these guys could play better than Baker has this year and should be available this off season... Collin Kaepernick Andy Dalton Nate Sudfeld Ryan Fitzpatrick Eli Manning Teddy Bridgewater Marcus Mariota Phillip Rivers ----------- It's possible but I think it's a longshot to say a better coach could fix everything. He'd have to be a really great coach. If Baker just didn't improve or regressed slightly from his rookie year that would be one thing, but he's greatly regressed and you can't just write that off. You just dramatically undervalue what a good OC brings to the table. Kitchens has been terrible and putting players in the right positions and knowing what plays to call. He also doens't seem to be able to handle calling the offense and being the HC. The blame does not get placed on the 2nd year QB whos not been as good as he was last year, but has a LOT more thrown at him this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Ron Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 We have definitely played better recently, and I don't think it's just down to the opposition. We've run the ball more and have stopped waiting for 10 minutes for Baker to throw to an open receiver downfield. What I don't get, is why we seem to ignore the run game once it has put us in a decent position. I think we should be running the ball with Chubb and Hunt as much as we can. Then when we want to throw it we have the weapons for Baker to put the ball wherever he feels most comfortable. I just cannot comprehend why we keep returning to a system that didn't work before Baker/Freddie and hasn't worked since either has been in Cleveland. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big poppa pump Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 26 minutes ago, Mega Ron said: We have definitely played better recently, and I don't think it's just down to the opposition. We've run the ball more and have stopped waiting for 10 minutes for Baker to throw to an open receiver downfield. What I don't get, is why we seem to ignore the run game once it has put us in a decent position. I think we should be running the ball with Chubb and Hunt as much as we can. Then when we want to throw it we have the weapons for Baker to put the ball wherever he feels most comfortable. I just cannot comprehend why we keep returning to a system that didn't work before Baker/Freddie and hasn't worked since either has been in Cleveland. Not to mention, the play action pass would work so much better. Whether we did it from under center, or out of the shotgun, this should be a run first team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LETSGOBROWNIES Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 cut ties with the dead weight (hubbard, kirko, higgins, randall, maybe vernon) re-sign hunt, schobert, robinson draft OL, DB, 3rd WR or TE, DL maybe get a new DC boring stuff but just keep making progress 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwibrown Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 23 minutes ago, mistakey said: cut ties with the dead weight (hubbard, kirko, higgins, randall, maybe vernon) re-sign hunt, schobert, robinson draft OL, DB, 3rd WR or TE, DL maybe get a new DC boring stuff but just keep making progress Outaide of myles our pass rush has been meh despite a lot of talent.i want a new pass rush or dl coach, that gets the timing on our rushes right. Vernon has been solid against the tu but basically a non factor vs the pass, id like to see him have another shot for at least half the year and see if he improves with a brtter pass rushing plan. He has been a let down and not worth what we pay him. If we had to keep him or schobert id cut him in a heart beat. Give joe vernons money if needed. Edited December 3, 2019 by Kiwibrown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 It feels like we're muddling our rush when Garrett is off the field. I know we're not because we haven't really played mobile QB's. But my God...we just refuse to peel our ears back and go. It's embarrassing. We desperately need some pass rush specialists. Even if they're terrible against the run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reginaldm9 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mind Character Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 @BrownLeader Your post actually had some good positive momentum but lost complete steam at the end with that list. I do however think that you're right in that Phillip Rivers, Teddy Bridgewater, and Andy Dalton could've have done as well if not better with this same talent this year than Baker has done. Rivers being a specialist at diagnosing defenses and getting the ball out could've mitigated the oline issues and Bridgewater and Dalton have good pocket mobility and can read defenses better than Baker. Baker has been dreadful at processing the game and reading defenses this year. Anyone that thinks Rivers, Dalton, and Bridgewater couldn't read the game and deliver on time better than Baker is unwilling to look at reality. That said, you can't possibly really think that longterm or even shorterm-wise that any of those QBs on the list would be an upgrade over Baker... right? If so, I'm afraid that assessment would not be correct assuming that Baker can get back to a more consistently positive trajectory. Your points about teams/QBs doing more with less (even on the OLine) and how we should still be able to do better than 13 points in critical games with 3 All-Pros (Chubb, Hunt, OBJ) and 2 Pro-Bowlers (Landry and Bitonio) is a valid one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrownLeader Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) @Mind Character "actually" lol. Some or most of you are underestimating how uniquely bad Baker's downturn has been. It doesn't happen. It's a flashing red flag. With this supporting cast, most halfway decent QBs could play better and have this team at the playoff doorstep. Baker needs a legit push from both competition & coaching. Next season, having a guy you feel good about that could step in if Baker's play doesn't improve, is going to be a necessity. Edited December 3, 2019 by BrownLeader Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonanza23 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 6 hours ago, BrownLeader said: Hearing a lot of talk ranging from poor OL play to Kitchen's coaching to excuse Mayfield's play this year. They're not good arguments. He's got the league's leading rusher. His #2 RB was the league's leading rusher 2 seasons ago. He's got an all pro #1 WR and a pro bowl #2 WR. Bottom line, he's not playing well enough to QB a team to a winning record, let alone into the playoffs. His recent stretch of 143 w/o a pick was certainly luck if you watched every game. Kitchens is a good OC and a terrible HC. The OL struggles to pass pro really well but other QBs have excelled with less. This year Mayfield is keeping the team from winning more games. Landry & Beckham's skip of the post game press could be a little hint that they've had it with losing games they ought to be winning. For good or bad those two are the main leaders of this team. Even though it will effectively be a divorce, Dorsey needs to find a guy to push or compete with Baker next year. Imo each of these guys could play better than Baker has this year and should be available this off season... Collin Kaepernick Andy Dalton Nate Sudfeld Ryan Fitzpatrick Eli Manning Teddy Bridgewater Marcus Mariota Phillip Rivers ----------- It's possible but I think it's a longshot to say a better coach could fix everything. He'd have to be a really great coach. If Baker just didn't improve or regressed slightly from his rookie year that would be one thing, but he's greatly regressed and you can't just write that off. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 40 minutes ago, BrownLeader said: Next season, having a guy you feel good about that could step in if Baker's play doesn't improve, is going to be a necessity. You mean like Colin Kaepernick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkPrice25 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 15 hours ago, Mind Character said: Fire/Replace QB Coach Ryan Lindley with an elite QB trainer/developer that has Offensive Play-calling expertise or upside 2.) Upgrade RT/Replace Chris Hubbard High Quality Starter Impact Via the Draft: 1.) Isaiah Wilson, RT Georgia, A-Distant-2.) Josh Jones, RT Houston, 3.) Prince Tega Wanogho, RT-Convert Auburn , 4.) Terrance Steele, RT TTU High Quality Starter Impact Via Free Agency: 1.) Bryan Bulaga and 2.) Jack Conklin 3.) Upgrade RG/Replace Wyatt Teller and Eric Kush High Quality Starter Impact Options Via the Draft: 1.) Tristan Wirfs, RG-Convert Iowa, 2.) Shane Lemieux, OG Oregon, 3.) Nathan Gilliam, RG Wake Forest, 4.) Yasir Durant, OG-Convert Missouri High Quality Starter Impact Via Free Agency: 1.) Brandon Scherff and A-Distant-2.) Graham Glasgow 4.) Upgrade Starting LT and Re-Sign Greg Robinson as a back-up Swing option High Quality Starter Impact Via Draft: 1.) Andrew Thomas, LT Georgia, 2.) Jedrick Wills Jr., OT Alabama, 3.) Austin Jackson, LT USC, A-Distant-4.) Alex Leatherwood, LT/OG Alabama, A-Distant-5.) Prince Tega Wanogho, LT Auburn High Quality Starter Impact Via Free Agency: 1.) Anthony Castonzo and 2.) No one else 5.) Todd Monken takes over Play-Calling. 6.) Baker, OBJ, Jarvis, and the rest of our offensive playmakers as well as our OC need to rent a big house together, watch film, and mentally/physically rep things until they're in sync with how they see and approach things. 7.) Draft a Reliable Hands Catching-Speed threat WR2 with boundary and slot versatility -- OR-- just draft Michael Pittman, USC in order to stress the defense in ways that creates space and match-up 1-on-1 scenarios. Pittman will fall for idiotic reasons like Michael Thomas did coming out of the draft (this option would shape the offense toward just having a big-time boundary playmaker in Pittman and not necessarily a blistering vertical speed threat per se). 8.) Acquire upgrades at the Hybrid Safety position 9.) Sign Jack Doyle as the hybrid receiver/blocker TE or Acquire a Receiving-Blocking TE 10.) Understand there's likely no high quality help coming in the draft or free agency this year at impact edge rusher so get creative with how to improve that position (i.e., trades, etc.) 11.) Understand there is no high quality impact help coming in the draft or free agency this year at the impact defensive tackle position so get creative with how to upgrade that position (i.e., trades, etc) Freddie's fate will ultimately be decided by the last four games. If we look disinterested and lackluster (and there are more discipline/culture issues) he's gonna go. I just can't think Dorsey would be so stubborn to keep it the same if the wheels come off. With that said, if the team plays well for him, he'll stay, because Dorsey's not gonna admit a mistake if he doesn't have to. If he goes, my top picks for HC are Dan Campbell or Mike Munchak. Both are underrated and seem like strong leaders who will 1) right the ship in terms of culture and discipline, 2) delegate and focus on HC duties and 3) maintain most of Dorsey's handpicked staff. 1. Mike Bajakian, the QB Coach from Todd Monken's time in TB. Currently an OC in the college game. He coached Jameis Winston to the best seasons of his career. 2. I've said all along that Bryan Bulaga makes most sense, given his ties to our OL coach and FO. 3. Justin McCray makes a lot of sense at RG, honestly. The coaches and FO obviously like him, too. If we get a better OT duo I think he'll get a look at guard. 4. This will depend on how the draft shakes out and what could happen in the WAS front office. If no top LT prospects are available when we pick I think we trade for Trent Williams. Maybe our 1st, a 3rd (we have two) and a 2021 mid-round pick for Trent and WAS 2nd? 5. In this scenario, Monken takes control of the playcalling on offense. 6. Timing and chemistry are 2 things Baker and ALL his top targets (OBJ, Jarvis, Njoku, Hunt, etc) MUST have next year. I don't care how they get it, but they better have it come week 1. 7. Dorsey's a speed guy. He'll probably draft a speedy WR in the mid-rounds. 8. Haven't really checked out any of the hybrid safeties yet so can't comment. 9. YES! Doyle has been in all of my personal mocks. Good back up TE who can catch and block. Can even be a viable spot starter. For 10-11, we just need to find some solid role players who can help in certain situations. As far as draft choices go, I'll have to get back to you. Given this scenario I've outlined, I kinda like Ashtyn Davis since Randall won't be here, but I'm not married to any prospect right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NateDawg Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said: You mean like Colin Kaepernick? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BleedTheClock Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 1st: AJ Epenesa/DE/Iowa 2nd: Tristin Wirfs/OT/Iowa 3rd: Trey Adams/OTWashington 3rd: Kenny Willekes/DE/Michigan State 4th: Tre Smith/OG/Tennessee 5th: Liam Eichenberg/OT/Notre Dame 6th: Richie Worship/FB/Purdue 7th: David Moa/DT/Boise State Trenches baby! EDIT: The sad thing is, this wouldn't even really be overkill. Edited December 3, 2019 by BleedTheClock 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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