Fix the Browns

[mtmmike]

On 12/3/2019 at 2:22 PM, BrownLeader said:

 

@Mind Character  "actually" lol.

Some or most of you are underestimating how uniquely bad Baker's downturn has been. It doesn't happen. It's a flashing red flag. With this supporting cast, most halfway decent QBs could play better and have this team at the playoff doorstep. Baker needs a legit push from both competition & coaching. Next season, having a guy you feel good about that could step in if Baker's play doesn't improve, is going to be a necessity.

Baker 6000 yards in his 1.5 season should we just cut him

[BleedTheClock]

3 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The biggest failure this year has been not establishing an identity.

It’s like we want to be tough, but the players can’t differentiate tough from aggressive but sloppy.

We want to be a run first team, but OBJ/Juice/Baker, etc.

We want to air it out, but we haven’t done it well.

We try to keep everyone happy as opposed to just running an offense.

13 games in and I still have no clue what their objective is week to week.

Exactly. We are a directionless team. 

[mtmmike]

4-1with hunt

[OhioG]

Fix the offensive line. See if Robinson can play RT. If not draft/sign in FA a LT, RT and RG

Cut Vernon. Draft a DE

Tell OBJ we will trade him at the deadline if the season isnt going well from a list of teams he gives us. Til then let him get into sync with Baker.

Fix the safety positions.

 

[Bonanza23]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The biggest failure this year has been not establishing an identity.

It’s like we want to be tough, but the players can’t differentiate tough from aggressive but sloppy.

We want to be a run first team, but OBJ/Juice/Baker, etc.

We want to air it out, but we haven’t done it well.

We try to keep everyone happy as opposed to just running an offense.

13 games in and I still have no clue what their objective is week to week.

As much as I hate to say it?

#coaching

[BrownLeader]

1 hour ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The biggest failure this year has been not establishing an identity.

It’s like we want to be tough, but the players can’t differentiate tough from aggressive but sloppy.

We want to be a run first team, but OBJ/Juice/Baker, etc.

We want to air it out, but we haven’t done it well.

We try to keep everyone happy as opposed to just running an offense.

13 games in and I still have no clue what their objective is week to week.

We definitely have an identity this year..its just not a good one.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

21 minutes ago, Bonanza23 said:

As much as I hate to say it?

#coaching

Oh for sure, but it’s also on the FO.

Assembling this group of personalities and expecting a rookie HC to whip them into shape is a big ask.

I get Dorsey doesn’t seem to care about character a ton, but maybe he needs focus on it a bit more.

[Bonanza23]

20 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Oh for sure, but it’s also on the FO.

Assembling this group of personalities and expecting a rookie HC to whip them into shape is a big ask.

I get Dorsey doesn’t seem to care about character a ton, but maybe he needs focus on it a bit more.

Dorsey needs to hire a guy that knows oline. If we have two even average tackles we win more games. I’d be curious to check Mayfields iPhone to see how many steps he’s taken this year. You can only run for your life so long. Yet people expect perfection in a chaotic environment. 
 

This year just plain ole seems like a perfect storm of suckitude. I’d love to say there’s always next year, but I’m not so sure. I feel like @sdrawkcab321 about now. 

[BrownsDog23]

Step 1: Fire the entire offensive coaching staff including Freddie  

Step 2: Hire EXPERIENCED play caller with offensive philosophy that fits our personnel 

Step 3: fix o line

Step 4: find a  box safety that can make plays against the run and cover TEs

Edited December 9, 2019 by BrownsDog23

[sdrawkcab321]

1 hour ago, BrownsDog23 said:

Step 1: Fire the entire offensive coaching staff including Freddie  

Step 2: Hire EXPERIENCED play caller with offensive philosophy that fits our personnel 

Step 3: fix o line

Step 4: find a  box safety that can make plays against the run and cover TEs

As an OC sure. But I’m done hiring great coordinators. We need a smart football mind and a leader who can hire their staff and let them do their job. 

Edited December 9, 2019 by sdrawkcab321

[DawgX]

11 hours ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

The biggest failure this year has been not establishing an identity.

It’s like we want to be tough, but the players can’t differentiate tough from aggressive but sloppy.

We want to be a run first team, but OBJ/Juice/Baker, etc.

We want to air it out, but we haven’t done it well.

We try to keep everyone happy as opposed to just running an offense.

13 games in and I still have no clue what their objective is week to week.

You know I'm not as hard on Freddie as a lot of guys on here, but this is one area where Freddie does deserve blame. He always says we're a run first team, but that hasn't been the case in most games this season. Then yesterday he said we didn't run the ball much in the first half because we were only getting 2-3 yard gains with our first few carries. Teams that are truly run first don't give up the run after like five or so mediocre runs - they keep pounding the rock. Fortunately he made adjustments in the second half and committed to the run game, which he deserves credit for, but we very easily could have been up by far more if we ran the ball more all game long.

Basically, he tries to say our identity is a run first team, but his actions don't back that up. Chubb has plenty of carries on the year, but when you have Chubb AND Hunt, you should be running the ball a lot more, especially when Baker and the passing game has been inconsistent all year long. In the past couple of weeks, I feel like we've seen less offensive looks with Chubb and Hunt in the backfield together, which was working so well for us before and gives us such an advantage. I'm just not sure why Freddie and the coaching staff keep running away from what works for us offensively and tries to make us into something we're not. I get that Freddie is still learning himself, but it just seems weird that we keep avoiding operating the offense in a way that has clearly been successful for us - uptempo, quick passes, hard play-action, etc.

Although our offense wasn't really the problem yesterday - it was the defense and that was the case last week at Pittsburgh too (Wilks deserves a lot more blame than he's gotten the past couple of weeks - I know we're without Garrett, but there's still talent on this defense). But we all know the offense isn't clicking in the way it should be, even though we've seen glimpses of how good it could be. It's just frustrating.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

3 hours ago, sdrawkcab321 said:

As an OC sure. But I’m done hiring great coordinators. We need a smart football mind and a leader who can hire their staff and let them do their job. 

Yeah for whatever reason we just seem to have to try to be the smartest dudes in the room all the time.

Head coach is enough responsibility for one dude and so is OC.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

Just now, DawgX said:

You know I'm not as hard on Freddie as a lot of guys on here, but this is one area where Freddie does deserve blame. He always says we're a run first team, but that hasn't been the case in most games this season. Then yesterday he said we didn't run the ball much in the first half because we were only getting 2-3 yard gains with our first few carries. Teams that are truly run first don't give up the run after like five or so mediocre runs - they keep pounding the rock. Fortunately he made adjustments in the second half and committed to the run game, which he deserves credit for, but we very easily could have been up by far more if we ran the ball more all game long.

Oh he definitely does.  

Im not a Freddie apologist or think he deserves no blame, I’m just not ready for another one and done coaching debacle and ready to assume more turnover and chaos fixes things.

I think it’s been pretty clear for a month or two now that there’s no way Freddie can come back next year as the OC.  HC?  Sure.  But we need to let someone else run this offense.

If they like a Monken still, promote him and give him full control.  Campen, Henry and Stump are proven, quality position coaches and I’d like to keep them.

I think Lindley is likely gone or working in a reduced capacity.

Just now, DawgX said:

Basically, he tries to say our identity is a run first team, but his actions don't back that up. Chubb has plenty of carries on the year, but when you have Chubb AND Hunt, you should be running the ball a lot more, especially when Baker and the passing game has been inconsistent all year long. In the past couple of weeks, I feel like we've seen less offensive looks with Chubb and Hunt in the backfield together, which was working so well for us before and gives us such an advantage. I'm just not sure why Freddie and the coaching staff keep running away from what works for us offensively and tries to make us into something we're not. I get that Freddie is still learning himself, but it just seems weird that we keep avoiding operating the offense in a way that has clearly been successful for us - uptempo, quick passes, hard play-action, etc.

I think it’s about egos and pacifying them.

Run first is great, and clearly our best option, but how does that sit with out 2 big money WR’s?

It just seems like Freddie is too worried about keeping everyone happy as opposed to focusing on running as efficient of an offense as possible.

Just now, DawgX said:

Although our offense wasn't really the problem yesterday - it was the defense and that was the case last week at Pittsburgh too (Wilks deserves a lot more blame than he's gotten the past couple of weeks - I know we're without Garrett, but there's still talent on this defense). But we all know the offense isn't clicking in the way it should be, even though we've seen glimpses of how good it could be. It's just frustrating.

Yeah I’m sure that’s a lot of it for the staff too.

Im sure Freddie and Co thought this was just a funk they needed to snap out of and things would be fine once everyone got their timing down and got on the same page, and maybe that happens next year, but it’s not happening now.

I think we all need Freddie to realize that and make sure to feed Chubb and Hunt these last 3 weeks. Losing to either AZ or CIN is pretty unacceptable less than .500 makes it hard to argue to keep him another year.

[Mind Character]

39 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Run first is great, and clearly our best option, but how does that sit with out 2 big money WR’s?

 

The madness of it all is that our passing game when it opens up is predicated off the play-action which is made more potent by being run first and having the run serve as the foundation to build the passing game upon.

We ran the ball 5 or 6 times in the first half on a defense that is in the bottom 3 in run defense. 

I don't know how to explain that other than a serious fundamental issue in the coordinator either lacking awareness, understanding, or the discipline to call the game to the strength of the team.

The 49ers are run first and have that identity. They control pace and tempo via the run first mentality which opens up their play-action game and passing to be a rhythm based force.

That's the template.

The things Kyle Shannahan would do with the pieces we have would simply be magical. 

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

24 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

The madness of it all is that our passing game when it opens up is predicated off the play-action which is made more potent by being run first and having the run serve as the foundation to build the passing game upon.

We ran the ball 5 or 6 times in the first half on a defense that is in the bottom 3 in run defense. 

To be fair, people we’re complaining about the lack of runs early quarter 2.

When we had run 9 total plays, 3 of which were runs.  Sample size is a thing.

Hell, multiple people were pissed after the first drive when Baker was 4/4 for 53 yards excluding that nonsensical call. 

Should we lean on the run more?  Of course.  But some fans are being over the top ridiculous at times.

24 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

I don't know how to explain that other than a serious fundamental issue in the coordinator either lacking awareness, understanding, or the discipline to call the game to the strength of the team.

I agree, I think it’s likely due to him being in over his head with both HC and OC duties as we didn’t see this lack of awareness last season.

24 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

The 49ers are run first and have that identity. They control pace and tempo via the run first mentality which opens up their play-action game and passing to be a rhythm based force.

That's the template.

The things Kyle Shannahan would do with the pieces we have would simply be magical. 

Shannahan has a decade or so of OC experience and is year 3 as well. Experience is a thing too.

I also reminder people complaining about him when he was here as well, but that’s neither here nor there.