jrry32 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 5 hours ago, ET80 said: No, we cannot. What if we get the Gardner Minshew from London these last four games? Is that an improvement? Incorrect, it was the only card left to play once the 6th round rookie started to play like a 6th round rookie. Yes it was. The Jags were trying to win football games, and Foles was the safer option over the higher upside Minshew. Yes, it's an improvement. You can go into the offseason with plans to address the QB position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 5 hours ago, ET80 said: No, we cannot. What if we get the Gardner Minshew from London these last four games? Is that an improvement? Incorrect, it was the only card left to play once the 6th round rookie started to play like a 6th round rookie. Yes it was. The Jags were trying to win football games, and Foles was the safer option over the higher upside Minshew. You know Brady had some games in 2001 where he played like a 6th round rookie too. Minshew has shown flashes. Might as well play the guy so you have the largest sample size possible this off-season when deciding whether to give him a shot next year as the starter. It’s not like there was ever any hope of playoffs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 4 hours ago, lolsurebro said: How anyone doesn't see this is beyond me. It's pretty simple to understand. Meh. I always viewed Foles as a career backup that caught some magic in a bottle (like Vikings Keenum, playoff Flacco, every 12th game Fitzpatrick, etc). He’s safer because he’s got a higher floor than a rookie 6th rounder but most bad starters/veteran backup QBs can probably say the same thing. I don’t think Foles was/is ever going to be the long term answer in Jacksonville. Minshew was at least flashing a bit. But however you feel about both guys, this back-and-forth just creates more questions heading into the offseason than answers. At least if you stick with one, you can get a good feeling on who he is moving ahead. Right now it looks like it’ll be Foles/Minshew again heading into 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 30 minutes ago, jrry32 said: Yes, it's an improvement. You can go into the offseason with plans to address the QB position. 20 minutes ago, mission27 said: You know Brady had some games in 2001 where he played like a 6th round rookie too. Minshew has shown flashes. Might as well play the guy so you have the largest sample size possible this off-season when deciding whether to give him a shot next year as the starter. It’s not like there was ever any hope of playoffs. I think I found the issue - people are looking at the Jags in hindsight. People are assuming they were done... well before they were done. Coming from London, the Jags were 4-5 with a win over the Titans in division. There was an important stretch, where the Colts and Titans were due - if they managed to get one of those two, the division changes and with the Texans as a volatile team that could win or lose at any moment, a 5-6 record after 12 weeks means the Jags were still in the playoff picture. Nobody needed to evaluate anything for 2020, not when winning the AFCS was a goal that was still attainable. In that view, you go with the guy who you think will win games - and the lower risk of the two options is the veteran, not the 6th round pick. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 1 minute ago, ET80 said: I think I found the issue - people are looking at the Jags in hindsight. People are assuming they were done well before they were done. Coming from London, the Jags were 4-5 with a win over the Titans in division. There was an important stretch, where the Colts and Titans were due - if they managed to get one of those two, the division changes and with the Texans as a volatile team that could win or lose at any moment, a 4-5 record after 10 weeks means the Jags were still in the playoff picture. Nobody needed to evaluate anything for 2020, not when winning the AFCS was a goal that was still attainable. In that view, you go with the guy who you think will win games - and the lower risk of the two options is the veteran, not the 6th round pick. I get what you’re saying I just don’t think most people viewed a 4-5 Jags team with Nick Foles as having any real shot to compete for a championship This is 2019 and most people are rightly of the mind you should either be competing for a championship or playing young guys and / or tanking to set up to compete for a championship down the road Dont see much value in trying to eek out an extra win to maybe have a Hail Mary long shot chance to sneak into the playoffs and get smoked in the wild card round 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Honestly i think what happened was The Jags went all in on Nick Foles for god knows what reasons They realized they might have something in Minshew but didn’t want to give up on all those $$s with a good reason Minshew had a bad game or two which gave them an excuse to go back to Foles... and now he’s given them an excuse to do the right thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 3 minutes ago, mission27 said: I get what you’re saying I just don’t think most people viewed a 4-5 Jags team with Nick Foles as having any real shot to compete for a championship You think anyone in Duval is going to admit this, knowing that it's "playoffs or bust" from Khan? I fully agree with you that the Jags really didn't have a shot at any point this season, but these coaches and FO guys have to approach this as if they do. They have to put their best foot forward to win a division, simply because that's the expectation - they had to win to keep their jobs. 3 minutes ago, mission27 said: This is 2019 and most people are rightly of the mind you should either be competing for a championship or playing young guys and / or tanking to set up to compete for a championship down the road While I agree with this, I'm also reminded of this Jags team a few years ago going into Pittsburgh and winning (back when that wasn't something you shouldn't be able to do) and playing the Patriots close in the AFCCG. For as bad as Foles is, he's much better than Blake Bortles, no? 5 minutes ago, mission27 said: Dont see much value in trying to eek out an extra win to maybe have a Hail Mary long shot chance to sneak into the playoffs and get smoked in the wild card round Neither do I, but I don't think those who have jobs on the line have the luxury of thinking this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 Just now, ET80 said: You think anyone in Duval is going to admit this, knowing that it's "playoffs or bust" from Khan? I fully agree with you that the Jags really didn't have a shot at any point this season, but these coaches and FO guys have to approach this as if they do. They have to put their best foot forward to win a division, simply because that's the expectation - they had to win to keep their jobs. While I agree with this, I'm also reminded of this Jags team a few years ago going into Pittsburgh and winning (back when that wasn't something you shouldn't be able to do) and playing the Patriots close in the AFCCG. For as bad as Foles is, he's much better than Blake Bortles, no? Neither do I, but I don't think those who have jobs on the line have the luxury of thinking this. I get why they did what they did There is a misalignment of incentives when you have a coach and or front office on the hot seat... they’re going to try for a Hail Mary of short term success to save their job rather than doing what’s right for the franchise in the long run Thats why imo when in doubt you either fire a coach or you commit long term. It is never a good idea to be week to week or even one year at a time with your leadership team. If you believe in the person give them a lot of rope if you don’t believe in the person find someone else. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 36 minutes ago, mission27 said: Thats why imo when in doubt you either fire a coach or you commit long term. It is never a good idea to be week to week or even one year at a time with your leadership team. If you believe in the person give them a lot of rope if you don’t believe in the person find someone else. A football for this comment. I can agree with this. 36 minutes ago, mission27 said: There is a misalignment of incentives when you have a coach and or front office on the hot seat... they’re going to try for a Hail Mary of short term success to save their job rather than doing what’s right for the franchise in the long run I guess my question is - wouldn't one argue that leaning on the flashy 6th round rookie over the bland veteran with a track record of game manager be the hail mary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mission27 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 42 minutes ago, ET80 said: A football for this comment. I can agree with this. I guess my question is - wouldn't one argue that leaning on the flashy 6th round rookie over the bland veteran with a track record of game manager be the hail mary? If you are trying to win now despite the odds, you could make an argument for either Minshew Mania or the weird Nick Foles magic If you’re willing to admit this isn’t your year, and its time to think about the long term plans, its Minshew in a landslide Going with Foles is a win now move which just doesn’t make sense imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 4 hours ago, ET80 said: I think I found the issue - people are looking at the Jags in hindsight. People are assuming they were done... well before they were done. Coming from London, the Jags were 4-5 with a win over the Titans in division. There was an important stretch, where the Colts and Titans were due - if they managed to get one of those two, the division changes and with the Texans as a volatile team that could win or lose at any moment, a 5-6 record after 12 weeks means the Jags were still in the playoff picture. Nobody needed to evaluate anything for 2020, not when winning the AFCS was a goal that was still attainable. In that view, you go with the guy who you think will win games - and the lower risk of the two options is the veteran, not the 6th round pick. I don't know of anybody who thought the Jaguars had even an outside chance of winning the Super Bowl. I'm not using hindsight. Look at my comments back then. It was clear they weren't going to win anything meaningful this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4L Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, mission27 said: Dont see much value in trying to eek out an extra win to maybe have a Hail Mary long shot chance to sneak into the playoffs and get smoked in the wild card round This is a flea mindset Only 1 team wins, chances are good most franchises won't win one for the next 50 years. Playoffs is playoffs and anything can happen, however unlikely Edited December 6, 2019 by N4L Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET80 Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 3 hours ago, jrry32 said: I don't know of anybody who thought the Jaguars had even an outside chance of winning the Super Bowl. Playoffs. Not Super Bowl. Just making it to the playoffs was sufficient to consider it a successful year, and in a very volatile AFCS, that was absolutely in play coming out of the bye week for Jax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Buzz Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 (edited) The Foles led Jaguars, everyone. Edited December 6, 2019 by .Buzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhanYouDigIt Posted December 6, 2019 Share Posted December 6, 2019 I think the Ravens would beat us by 60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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