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Jaguars to start Gardner Minshew


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1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

Yes, it was. I'm not sure how anybody could think Foles is an unknown at this point or at that point.

Well if he's known - he's known as a Super Bowl winning QB who took a currently floundering Eagles team to wins in the playoffs.

Given what we've seen, he's also a better QB than Gardner Minshew (despite the moustache and plucky back story).

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1 hour ago, ET80 said:

Well if he's known - he's known as a Super Bowl winning QB who took a currently floundering Eagles team to wins in the playoffs.

Given what we've seen, he's also a better QB than Gardner Minshew (despite the moustache and plucky back story).

He's Joe Flacco with higher highs and lower lows. And you mistakenly think I'm saying Minshew is a franchise QB. The point behind playing it out with him is determining your future plans. I will continue to shout from the metaphorical rooftops that benching him for Foles is the sort of move a loser franchise makes.

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20 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

He's Joe Flacco with higher highs and lower lows

I don't necessarily disagree with this, to be honest.

20 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

And you mistakenly think I'm saying Minshew is a franchise QB.

I don't think you've said that - but I'll contend that going with Foles was a move with the intention of winning games and making a wildcard run.

20 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

The point behind playing it out with him is determining your future plans. I will continue to shout from the metaphorical rooftops that benching him for Foles is the sort of move a loser franchise makes.

I think the Jags were still in some sort of contention when they came back from London; Going with Foles was their "win now" move. 

Determining future plans isn't a luxury this current staff has - they had to win, or the only future plans in place was "Who is going to run this franchise", because Coughlin, Marrone and Caldwell are gone if the Jags end with another losing season.

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7 hours ago, ET80 said:

I don't think you've said that - but I'll contend that going with Foles was a move with the intention of winning games and making a wildcard run.

I think the Jags were still in some sort of contention when they came back from London; Going with Foles was their "win now" move. 

Determining future plans isn't a luxury this current staff has - they had to win, or the only future plans in place was "Who is going to run this franchise", because Coughlin, Marrone and Caldwell are gone if the Jags end with another losing season.

And that's the sort of move Jeff Fisher would make. It's self preservation, not what's best for the franchise. I understand it, but it's still the wrong decision.

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6 hours ago, jrry32 said:

And that's the sort of move Jeff Fisher would make. It's self preservation, not what's best for the franchise. I understand it, but it's still the wrong decision.

Why does it matter about what's best for the franchise if every decision maker currently employed is gone? Who is truly evaluating for next season when many of these people won't even have a next season if they don't get this season right? Name me one example of how a "hot seat" coach/FO was ever in a spot to do something right for the franchise... and opted to do that instead of save their own job. It isn't just Jeff Fisher.

100 times out of 100, self preservation is all that matters to people - at any level, in any industry if we're being blunt. If I'm going to get fired from my own job, I'm not worried about making sure my filing cabinet is I'm order for the next guy, I'm doing everything I can to save my own job.

What you're saying makes sense if you're talking about a staff that isn't coaching from week to week - which feels like what this staff is doing. These guys have zero promise on anything at this point (in fact, I think we're all pretty certain they're gone at the end of the season). Why provide an eval to a future staff that's going to scrap everything anyways?

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13 hours ago, ET80 said:

I don't necessarily disagree with this, to be honest.

I don't think you've said that - but I'll contend that going with Foles was a move with the intention of winning games and making a wildcard run.

I think the Jags were still in some sort of contention when they came back from London; Going with Foles was their "win now" move. 

Determining future plans isn't a luxury this current staff has - they had to win, or the only future plans in place was "Who is going to run this franchise", because Coughlin, Marrone and Caldwell are gone if the Jags end with another losing season.

I don't blame the Jags for going back to Foles. You paid him a ton of money to take you to the next level. You have to see what he has. I'm still not convinced that Foles is a BAD QB. I think that he could be a serviceable starter in the right system. But the Jags AREN'T that system. They are really, really, really bad up front. They are the most penalized team in football and offer essentially no pass blocking up front. They do marginally better in run blocking, but Fournette has done most of the work. Foles is a sitting duck back there because of his immobility and slow release. Minshew, on the other hand, has a good release, does at least a modest job of feeling pressure, and he is dynamite at extending plays with his feet. He's the right guy for the current job...no question. 

I've been really impressed with Minshew. There's nothing that I've seen in Daniel Jones's game in his first season that makes me confident that he'll be a better pro than Minshew (though he likely will be given more opportunity). I think that Minshew is BETTER than Finely and Haskins. The only guy I'm confident that he is behind right now is Kyler Murray. Only time will tell what happens with the 2019 QB class, as I'm not 100% confident than any of them will be long-term starters...but as of right now, I think that Murray, Jones, and Minshew have the best chance.

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14 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said:

I've been really impressed with Minshew

I'm on an island with this one, and I get that. I see a slightly upgraded Case Keenum in Minshew. 

Don't get me wrong - it's still "house money" when you find a guy who is capable of being one of the 32 people who can be a starting QB in the NFL, and you find them on day three of the draft. I just don't think Minshew is a sound investment as a long term solution.

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4 hours ago, ET80 said:

Why does it matter about what's best for the franchise if every decision maker currently employed is gone? Who is truly evaluating for next season when many of these people won't even have a next season if they don't get this season right? Name me one example of how a "hot seat" coach/FO was ever in a spot to do something right for the franchise... and opted to do that instead of save their own job. It isn't just Jeff Fisher.

100 times out of 100, self preservation is all that matters to people - at any level, in any industry if we're being blunt. If I'm going to get fired from my own job, I'm not worried about making sure my filing cabinet is I'm order for the next guy, I'm doing everything I can to save my own job.

What you're saying makes sense if you're talking about a staff that isn't coaching from week to week - which feels like what this staff is doing. These guys have zero promise on anything at this point (in fact, I think we're all pretty certain they're gone at the end of the season). Why provide an eval to a future staff that's going to scrap everything anyways?

ET, you're arguing that it's understandable that they'd look to save their jobs, not that it was the best move for the franchise.

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2 hours ago, ET80 said:

I'm on an island with this one, and I get that. I see a slightly upgraded Case Keenum in Minshew. 

Don't get me wrong - it's still "house money" when you find a guy who is capable of being one of the 32 people who can be a starting QB in the NFL, and you find them on day three of the draft. I just don't think Minshew is a sound investment as a long term solution.

I agree, but luckily the Jags don't have to make any real investment. Unless you think passing on a QB this year with their top 10 (likely outside top 5) would akin to investing in Minshew? I would disagree since the Jags are riddled with holes, they need help everywhere, and with their pick it's not like they'll be able to grab their top QB prospect most likely. 

 

I think they should go BPA in the 1st, and then take a QB sometime later in the draft. They don't need to reach for any QBs, but they also shouldn't act like the QB position is set for the foreseeable future.

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17 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

ET, you're arguing that it's understandable that they'd look to save their jobs, not that it was the best move for the franchise.

Who within the franchise is able to make this determination of what is the best move for the franchise? Shad Khan? He's the only one standing after a purge. What's best for the franchise is irrelevant to someone who is on their way out.

Are you suggesting that Khan request Minshew starts? Because that's drifting into Jerry Jones/Dan Snyder territory, which I doubt Shad would want to become. He's a great owner in that he understands that he's there to cut the checks, not make decisions.

I'm really struggling to figure out your angle at this point, help me out.

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20 minutes ago, RandyMossIsBoss said:

I agree, but luckily the Jags don't have to make any real investment. Unless you think passing on a QB this year with their top 10 (likely outside top 5) would akin to investing in Minshew? I would disagree since the Jags are riddled with holes, they need help everywhere, and with their pick it's not like they'll be able to grab their top QB prospect most likely. 

 

I think they should go BPA in the 1st, and then take a QB sometime later in the draft. They don't need to reach for any QBs, but they also shouldn't act like the QB position is set for the foreseeable future.

It's not this year - it's next year.

I'd surmise that Minshew is going to get the starting job going into TC next season. Unless he goes full Nathan Peterman on us, or leads the Jags to a 3-13 (or worse) season, I'd believe that Jacksonville would want to see another year out of him on a rookie contract. 

If Minshew plays at his current pace, you're not going to feel the need to upgrade at QB. You'll be comfortable enough to let him start, waiting for a jump in performance that may or may not come - and with 2021 looking like another "Year of the QB" draft, hitching your wagon this early could have issues down the line - think Andy Dalton or Matt Schaub, a guy good enough to get you competetive but not good enough to win when it matters.

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5 hours ago, ET80 said:

Why does it matter about what's best for the franchise if every decision maker currently employed is gone? Who is truly evaluating for next season when many of these people won't even have a next season if they don't get this season right? Name me one example of how a "hot seat" coach/FO was ever in a spot to do something right for the franchise... and opted to do that instead of save their own job. It isn't just Jeff Fisher.

100 times out of 100, self preservation is all that matters to people - at any level, in any industry if we're being blunt. If I'm going to get fired from my own job, I'm not worried about making sure my filing cabinet is I'm order for the next guy, I'm doing everything I can to save my own job.

What you're saying makes sense if you're talking about a staff that isn't coaching from week to week - which feels like what this staff is doing. These guys have zero promise on anything at this point (in fact, I think we're all pretty certain they're gone at the end of the season). Why provide an eval to a future staff that's going to scrap everything anyways?

The future gm/president would have the film to evaluate the players

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