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Lions place 1st round pick T.J. Hockenson on IR

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45 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Would you take Kittle in the top 10, full hindsight? Or a healthy Gronk? Gonzo? 

The positional value is lower for sure, but the trigger can/should still get pulled if you think they’re going to be be absolutely dominant tight ends.

Maybe, I would in hindsight, but what does that exactly prove?  You can name a couple examples of the elite of the elite tight ends that weren't even drafted in the first round. Those guys are exceptions. That's like saying well this guy hit the Powerball lottery let me see if I can with a lot more money. I can name a lot more round 1st round tight ends that proved they weren't worth their draft status than you can name ones that actually proved their value.

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3 hours ago, lavar703 said:

How was he a reach? Nearly everyone had this guy in the top 10 come draft day. They didn’t reach he just had a rough season. 

Yeah, a few people felt as if he was the best offensive player in the draft - anyone questioning this is really revising history on that.

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12 minutes ago, taylor made said:

Maybe, I would in hindsight, but what does that exactly prove?  You can name a couple examples of the elite of the elite tight ends that weren't even drafted in the first round. Those guys are exceptions. That's like saying well this guy hit the Powerball lottery let me see if I can with a lot more money. I can name a lot more round 1st round tight ends that proved they weren't worth their draft status than you can name ones that actually proved their value.

You can say that about any position. There are more busts than hits at any position.

Bringing up examples shows that “you don’t take tight ends in the first round” is a bit of an overstatement. You don’t take punters in the first round. Or long snappers. Or fullbacks. Tight ends have lower positional value than others but they’re not untouchable in the first. 

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Average TEs may be very replaceable and unimportant.. But elite TEs are absolute game changers and offer so much flexibility for the offense. When teams are drafting a TE in the first round they are obviously expecting that. I'm totally fine with teams taking TEs in the first, provided they have an elite skillset. I don't really follow prospects leading up to the draft anymore, but as far as I know Hockensen has that skillset. He was also projected to go pretty dang high in the draft. People stating the Lions reached are letting this season impact their opinion, which is unfair.

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11 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Would you take Kittle in the top 10, full hindsight? Or a healthy Gronk? Gonzo? 

The positional value is lower for sure, but the trigger can/should still get pulled if you think they’re going to be be absolutely dominant tight ends.

The thing is, history has proven that TE's need time to develop before they get to a level where they are really impactful. By that time, their rookie contract is almost over and you have to pay them. Might as well pay some TE in FA and use your high draft pick on someone who has way more impact on his cheap rookie deal.

That being said, some TE's are worth a first round pick, and Hockenson is definitely one of them in terms of talent. But I mean, if you could have picked Oliver with that pick it's crazy to take Hockenson over him. 

Thanks again Lions, greetings from a Bills fan ;) 

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16 hours ago, TimeForChange said:

Given how often the lions have high first round picks you would think they would have more success.

Since 2000-Stafford, Johnson...Backus (kinda)

Hockenson was a reach to begin with and has been absent outside his first game. I know it takes years sometimes for a TE to develop but we’ve already drafted 2 first round TEs that have busted.

Its exhausting being a Lions fan and getting these same ol story players.

Decker, Ragnow,Suh

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1 minute ago, Killashaw said:

The thing is, history has proven that TE's need time to develop before they get to a level where they are really impactful. By that time, their rookie contract is almost over and you have to pay them. Might as well pay some TE in FA and use your high draft pick on someone who has way more impact on his cheap rookie deal.

That being said, some TE's are worth a first round pick, and Hockenson is definitely one of them in terms of talent. But I mean, if you could have picked Oliver with that pick it's crazy to take Hockenson over him. 

Thanks again Lions, greetings from a Bills fan ;) 

I haven't really watched any Bills games but taking Player X over Hockenson has been a discussion we have had in the Lions forum. Obviously Oliver is one of those guys in the discussion. PFF has them both rated in the mid-60's (Oliver and Hock). Are you seeing an impact from Oliver that maybe is translating to other players and he's not being credited for? 

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2 minutes ago, Karnage84 said:

I haven't really watched any Bills games but taking Player X over Hockenson has been a discussion we have had in the Lions forum. Obviously Oliver is one of those guys in the discussion. PFF has them both rated in the mid-60's (Oliver and Hock). Are you seeing an impact from Oliver that maybe is translating to other players and he's not being credited for? 

In terms of this season Oliver has not been the stand out in our defense, but that's more because our defense is just amazing at every position. Oliver got the starting job and still has it, although the last weeks Jordan Philips got a lot of snaps as well instead of Oliver. And that's not because Oliver played bad, it was just that Philips was really playing amazing football. So you might wanna credit Oliver for that ;) 

In terms of actual helping other players on the pitch, I wouldn't say that he is the main reason why our defense is so good but he's definitely contributing a lot. So yeah, I think his presence on the pitch alone gives other players more room to excel.

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1 minute ago, Killashaw said:

In terms of this season Oliver has not been the stand out in our defense, but that's more because our defense is just amazing at every position. Oliver got the starting job and still has it, although the last weeks Jordan Philips got a lot of snaps as well instead of Oliver. And that's not because Oliver played bad, it was just that Philips was really playing amazing football. So you might wanna credit Oliver for that ;) 

In terms of actual helping other players on the pitch, I wouldn't say that he is the main reason why our defense is so good but he's definitely contributing a lot. So yeah, I think his presence on the pitch alone gives other players more room to excel.

I accepted Hock being the pick when it was made because... well, what's the point... it's not like Quinn was going to listen to me and you can't turn the pick back in and take someone else. 

However, I was strongly against the idea of taking a first round TE and really wanted the Lions to make the Broncos/Steelers trade. 

I hope that Hock proves people wrong and is a HOF player. He has an uphill battle trying to win over us Lions fans thanks to Eric Ebron and OBJ, Aaron Donald, et al. 

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I understand why they took him. They wanted to dominate in the run game and add a mismatch weapon to complement their WR's. I haven't watched the lions enough to know how well it worked with Kerryon Johnson.

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1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I understand why they took him. They wanted to dominate in the run game and add a mismatch weapon to complement their WR's. I haven't watched the lions enough to know how well it worked with Kerryon Johnson.

Kerryon did well before he was injured but I don't think it had anything to do with Hock really...  

TE's are so hard to evaluate.   Like the 2017 draft with Howard, Njoku, and Engram all going in the first round.  Neither one has made a major impact on their teams.   But none of those guys were drafted top 10 although Howard was slated to be a top 10 pick by most.

 

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