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Should the Seahawks move to the CFL?  

34 members have voted

  1. 1. Should the Seahawks move to the CFL?

    • Yes, be gone with them already.
    • No, I want see the Seahawks get beat down in the NFC West for years to come.
    • No, because then poor RudyZ might be stuck with them.
    • No, because I am a proud toothless member of the 12th Man which you all know means I became a fan in 2012. It's also the last year I took a shower, because my hygiene is lacking.


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I'm not sure where we would draft one at either, and I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable throwing a late round rookie in as a back up. Rosen isn't good, but he's not that bad and may be pretty good for Shanny. There's a difference between going from Mullens to Rosen to Rosen to 6th round rookie quarterback as your back up in my opinion. I'd much rather take a shot on Rosen finding competence if needed. 

Given the cap constraints, we may not get to re-sign Williams, so we will badly need a tackle. We already desperately need a guard. At this point, don't we need a Center, to be frank? Richburg could get the axe, Garland could retire, etc.  Sherm, Williams, Spoon and Verrett are all free agents next season, so corner could easily be on the list of priorities in the draft (a draft in which we are currently down a third round pick, though likely to pick up a fifth or sixth for Manny). Both Tartt and Harris are free agents. There are areas we will need to use earlier round picks. 

I'm really trying to trim as much fat as possible and triage positions as necessary so that we don't get put into a position where we have to cut several players or something like that. Moving from Mullens to Rosen likely almost pays Mostert's salary for next year. I'd also move on from Juice...I love him, but you can't justify 5 million for a full back. The position, even in Shanny's offense, doesn't have that level of net value (though if you do re-sign him, it'd be easy to have a first year cap hit of about 3 million, which again, could be paid for by the move from Mullens on a 4m second round rfa tender to the 1m base Rosen has). 

Not to mention, you also get a year to evaluate Rosen to see if any of this is feasible, and since we are likely to carry the relatively useless CJ Beathard anyway....

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6 minutes ago, NcFinest9erFan said:

Anyone have info on this player?

Largely just a sleeper type. UDFA I think. Probably has some upside in a ZBS, but he's not ready and we likely don't have the room for him. Given the current state of that Eagles offensive line, if he's being cut, he's most certainly not ready. 

Also, I expect relatively little poaching of other teams' cuts by teams unless they really liked them in the draft or it's a surprising vet cut with nfl tape. 

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20 minutes ago, Forge said:

There's a difference between going from Mullens to Rosen to Rosen to 6th round rookie quarterback as your back up in my opinion. I'd much rather take a shot on Rosen finding competence if needed. 

I'd much prefer to have a UDFA backing up Garoppolo in 2021 than give up any draft picks on what essentially would be a one-year rental (again, assuming a 2020 as 3rd QB) on a backup QB that would cost more in 2022 than Mullens would in 2021, and feasibly might never take a snap. Either Rosen or a UDFA would be a sign of losing anyway. 

I just see no reason in dropping a draft pick on renting a backup who is not remotely needed. A QB drafted with said 6th has the bonus of potentially being around 4x as long. And nobody says we need to use the 6th anyway. A late 3rd was where we found Beathard, and even Beathard would suffice. In that way the 6th can be whatever we want it to be. 

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1 minute ago, y2lamanaki said:

I'd much prefer to have a UDFA backing up Garoppolo in 2021 than give up any draft picks on what essentially would be a one-year rental (again, assuming a 2020 as 3rd QB) on a backup QB that would cost more in 2022 than Mullens would in 2021, and feasibly might never take a snap. Either Rosen or a UDFA would be a sign of losing anyway. 

I just see no reason in dropping a draft pick on renting a backup who is not remotely needed. A QB drafted with said 6th has the bonus of potentially being around 4x as long. And nobody says we need to use the 6th anyway. A late 3rd was where we found Beathard, and even Beathard would suffice. In that way the 6th can be whatever we want it to be. 

We are talking about a late round flier or I said in the first post, a player that likely isn't going to make our roster but could make Miami's. 

Also, there's no guarantee at all that he would more expensive than Mullens in 22 than Mullens in 21 and there's no guarantee that he's a two year (or one year) rental. That's when his contract expires, sure, but that doesn't mean he's not re-signed after when we have a better idea on the cap moving forward, and what Rosen actually is. 

Again, the reason would be potentially 3 million in savings. This is important in this upcoming cap crunch. Would I rather have Rosen + 2-3 million more for next season, or Mullens + random 6th or 7th round pick (in a draft in which picks may have the lowest value given we may not have a real college season for everyone) or player  who wasn't going to make the roster anyway?  If we want to keep CJ Beathard, I mean, I guess...that's the same and we could do that, though I'd rather gamble on Rosen's upside for less than 200K more. 

Yes, you could spend that pick or sign a UDFA and just throw him into the back up role and maybe you get someone there twice as long (unlikely that a 6th round pick or later sees the entirety of their contract), but also may not have the upside of Rosen. Again, I don't see the unlikely event of a UDFA making it through the entirety of their rookie contract as a huge reason not to make such a deal for a guy that was a former top 10 pick, 5 star recruit and been shuffled into the worst situations a quarterback has seen since Alex Smith (who ended up being a fine quarterback in the end) 

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I will say that if it's an eval issue on Rosen (just not liking him as a player, thinking that's he's just awful and there's nothing there) then I would understand not making a move for him at any cost. I just haven't seen enough of him to completely throw in the towel 

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4 minutes ago, Forge said:

Cowboys release Ha-Ha, and I think his career has now officially bottomed out. 

OR they could just be making room for ET. Ha-Ha was still a above average starter last year. You could do alot worst so its kinda surprising. But if Thomas is the end game, makes sense to release Dix. I think they save almost 2 million by doing this.

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Just now, 757-NINER said:

OR they could just be making room for ET. Ha-Ha was still a above average starter last year. You could do alot worst so its kinda surprising. But if Thomas is the end game, makes sense to release Dix. I think they save almost 2 million by doing this.

There were reports that he was losing the position battle to Darian Thompson before this. The talk is still that the Cowboys did their research on ET and haven't made a move since, which could be telling. 

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1 hour ago, Forge said:

We are talking about a late round flier or I said in the first post, a player that likely isn't going to make our roster but could make Miami's. 

Also, there's no guarantee at all that he would more expensive than Mullens in 22 than Mullens in 21 and there's no guarantee that he's a two year (or one year) rental. That's when his contract expires, sure, but that doesn't mean he's not re-signed after when we have a better idea on the cap moving forward, and what Rosen actually is. 

Again, the reason would be potentially 3 million in savings. This is important in this upcoming cap crunch. Would I rather have Rosen + 2-3 million more for next season, or Mullens + random 6th or 7th round pick (in a draft in which picks may have the lowest value given we may not have a real college season for everyone) or player  who wasn't going to make the roster anyway?  If we want to keep CJ Beathard, I mean, I guess...that's the same and we could do that, though I'd rather gamble on Rosen's upside for less than 200K more. 

Yes, you could spend that pick or sign a UDFA and just throw him into the back up role and maybe you get someone there twice as long (unlikely that a 6th round pick or later sees the entirety of their contract), but also may not have the upside of Rosen. Again, I don't see the unlikely event of a UDFA making it through the entirety of their rookie contract as a huge reason not to make such a deal for a guy that was a former top 10 pick, 5 star recruit and been shuffled into the worst situations a quarterback has seen since Alex Smith (who ended up being a fine quarterback in the end) 

I mean, AJ McCarron signed a $4M contract, I have to imagine Josh Rosen would have at least that value, no? Otherwise, again, why even re-sign him? And if he shows he's a quarterback closer to Alex Smith than a bust, he'll definitely cost more than that.

And with all due respect, Kaden Smith is the lone draft pick in the Kyle Shanahan era to not make it to a second offseason with the team (Joe Williams and Tim Harris being the only other two yet to make the roster), and even their later picks have been consistently able to contribute. I would much prefer they make their own choice on a player.

If Rosen was a free agent, I understand the switch if you can still pay him that low on a deal with more time. Otherwise, I don't see the appeal in paying the price of a draft pick on what is almost certainly a one-year rental on a backup who never sees the field.

 

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44 minutes ago, y2lamanaki said:

I mean, AJ McCarron signed a $4M contract, I have to imagine Josh Rosen would have at least that value, no? Otherwise, again, why even re-sign him? And if he shows he's a quarterback closer to Alex Smith than a bust, he'll definitely cost more than that.

And with all due respect, Kaden Smith is the lone draft pick in the Kyle Shanahan era to not make it to a second offseason with the team (Joe Williams and Tim Harris being the only other two yet to make the roster), and even their later picks have been consistently able to contribute. I would much prefer they make their own choice on a player.

If Rosen was a free agent, I understand the switch if you can still pay him that low on a deal with more time. Otherwise, I don't see the appeal in paying the price of a draft pick on what is almost certainly a one-year rental.

 

Jameis Winston makes 1.1 Million this year. Contracts can vary. Also, as a supplemental point, the fact that the contract pushes out another year (when the cap may be in a better situation) means that even if they do get paid the same contract, 4 million 2 years from now is likely better and more valuable than 4 million next season, when that same 4 million will be a slightly higher percentage of the cap 

If he shows talent, not many teams would see it outside of us since he only plays in an injury situation, and if he does show it to other teams because of injuries, well then it probably is a good thing that we acquired him because it likely means we didn't bottom out. If he shows a Goff / Smith like ability, it could lead to us not having to pay our current quarterback nearly 30 million dollars a year. The upshot with Rosen is that maybe you find something that is beyond being a back up quarterback over the course of the two years that you have him. You could certainly do this while drafting someone in round 6, but again, for me I would just think that based on previous evaluation of Rosen coming into the league, that we would have a better chance of not falling on our face in that situation. Though if you or anyone else thinks that Rosen just sucks and wouldn't be any better, I wouldn't blame them what he actually put on tape. Ostensibly, I find Rosen to be the best option and best compromise between the upside long term and filling an immediate role (back up quarterback). A 6th round quarterback drafted can have long term potential, likely doesn't have the immediate ability to play that I believe Rosen would have. Nick Mullens can fill the immediate back up quarterback role, but he's more expensive and has no additional upside outside of back up quarterback. 

If you want to weigh making a second off season while not actually contributing as that much more valuable, I won't stop you. I'm not going to pull that argument into the several different directions that it could go. But sure, we can consider Rosen a one year rental (since he won't play and would only be a third QB in year 1) and draft picks not playing year 1 and making it to a second off season as having twice the longevity. That would be factually accurate under that construction. For me, the majority of these picks have minimal impact when they do have an impact, and nothing I'm overly concerned about losing out on. While I do believe the team has a better record of finding late round contributors more than most in the league, I wouldn't say that is a majority of them or anything. Especially at the price point I'm condoning for Rosen (6th / 7th round, which basically limits the consistent contributors as DJ Jones and maybe Richie James if you want to consider a very average return ability as a consistent contribution of value). 

You also haven't acknowledged the fact that I also mentioned that the trade could be a player that wouldn't make our roster but would make theirs. Regardless, I do find your valuation of 6th / 7th round picks odd and excessive. I get wanting to hold on to the small possibility that one of them could turn into something bigger though, I just don't value the small likelihood that it happens as highly as you do, I suppose. 

That's fine if you aren't about spending an asset in such a manner, that's just a different in asset valuation, but I don't think it's fair to say that it makes no logical sense though. 

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42 minutes ago, Forge said:

You also haven't acknowledged the fact that I also mentioned that the trade could be a player that wouldn't make our roster but would make theirs. Regardless, I do find your valuation of 6th / 7th round picks odd and excessive. I get wanting to hold on to the small possibility that one of them could turn into something bigger though, I just don't value the small likelihood that it happens as highly as you do, I suppose. 

Sure, player for player would affect my thoughts no differently than free agency would. I didn't mention it as I assumed that would be assumed. Though that requires a team to trade a young quarterback for a player we don't need and not receive a pick in return, which is uncommon though not unusual.

I'm not overvaluing 6th/7th round picks. I perfectly understand the value of bringing up players in a system like DJ Jones (starting NT) and Richie James (steady KR/PR), same as I understand the importance of Justin Skule (our swing tackle), Jullian Taylor (DL rotation/depth), and Marcell Harris (special teams/safety depth). This says nothing of the positive reviews of Woerner either. And I understand that those contributions, however minor, are still more than what a backup QB brings. I'm finding a franchise with a franchise QB, a backup very comfortable in the system, and a talent acquisition team with proven aptitude at finding meaningful contributions in those picks. You want to save $3M, through which there are a variety of ways one could do that. Woerner's cap hit as a 6th round pick is $610k, is it not? You don't see the value in letting a Kendrick Bourne (over $3M this year and might reasonably make that much per year on a second contract) walk and slotting in someone at that salary? Inevitably we have to replace people. I'm sorry if I don't see the brilliance in replacing people AND losing draft picks AND not even getting any contributions. 

Also, sure you could re-sign Josh Rosen, but you could do the same thing with Mullens in the offseason. Nothing says we MUST sign him to a RFA tender. We have a cap wizard. Use him. Now we saved the same amount, and don't need to lose a draft pick to attempt to rebuild a former first round pick about to join team #3 in year #3.

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1 hour ago, y2lamanaki said:

I'm not overvaluing 6th/7th round picks.

Eh, to me you are. And that's fine. LIS, i get wanting to hold on to those picks just to see if you can shake something out. It's just a different valuation of those picks in a vacuum. I am fine with moving off them in situations like this and you would prefer not to. I don't think that either notion is right or wrong, just a different way of evaluating the worth of the picks and the players secured by them. 

1 hour ago, y2lamanaki said:

I perfectly understand the value of bringing up players in a system like DJ Jones (starting NT) and Richie James (steady KR/PR), same as I understand the importance of Justin Skule (our swing tackle), Jullian Taylor (DL rotation/depth), and Marcell Harris

Jones is really the only good one here. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to fall in line with the idea that somehow Jullian Taylor's 200 career defensive snaps are something of considerable value that couldn't have been found on the street. Skule was the swing tackle by default last year after Coleman got hurt and still ended up getting benched for Brunskill. Just because he was all we had and had to  start doesn't make him somehow good or something. Maybe he's better this year (hard to be worse), maybe he's not. We will find out. Hard to say this early in his career, but the fact that he's a swing tackle right now doesn't mean much (that's like saying in 2017, "well, Nathan Peterman is starting games, so that was a great draft pick!"). He was basically a net negative with the way he played last year. I'm not even sure he makes the team if Coleman doesn't get hurt. Marcell Harris fills the void of a typical late round pick. When he's had to play defense, it certainly hasn't been great, though in fairness to him last year, he wasn't always awful. I mean, we both made arguments last year that Exum should have made the team over him on the podcast last year, so I'm not really feeling the idea that he was / is somehow an integral part of the team. Is this team worse off if we cut Harris this year for Cyprien? I Don't think that there is much of a difference.  Trying to advocate that these are important pieces and not easily replaceable parts is just not something I'll support (outside of Jones). If you want to value them more than that for the purpose of this conversation, feel free to, and honestly, hitting on that Jones pick may be enough to warrant not trading off these picks in such a manner. That's an entirely subjective view point that I may not support but would certainly understand.  That's where the line of demarcation is though because I'm willing to miss out on these depth guys of minimal net value and spend the pick on something else. 

James I will let others debate. As a returner, he's average, and I think that is by and large not super important. He can break that one return out per year and maybe that has valid value, I Don't know. I didn't think he'd make the team this year before all the injuries, so obviously I don't think that there's a lot here at this point, though he probably should have been afforded more chances offensively. 

1 hour ago, y2lamanaki said:

You don't see the value in letting a Kendrick Bourne (over $3M this year and might reasonably make that much per year on a second contract) walk and slotting in someone at that salary?

I mean, I don't have Bourne's salary next year baked into our projected salaries, nor have I advocated for re-signing him. In fact, I had previously (like 6 months ago) labeled him as a dark horse to get cut because I would want his salary back for next year and if we had a situation where we felt comfortable with Aiyuk / Pettis / Deebo / Taylor, then he really wasn't needed at that price point. So not really sure where what the point of this was. Yes, there are always ways to cut the fat...one of the better ways for me would be to make this move regarding a back up quarterback lol. Minimal impact to the on field result while shedding salary. No matter where you cut from, you have to replace that person. Next year, we can cut Gould to save 3.75M. If we use a 6th round pick to draft his replacement, I don't know why that is better than using that same pick to acquire Rosen. If we cut Mostert, why is it better to use that 6th round pick on his replacement? That's how this works. Again, on an evaluation basis, if you'd rather make that pick because there is the potential for the additional team control (even if most picks in this area don't see it) or don't like Rosen, I get it. That's a difference in valuation, risk / reward & pro / con which I completely understand. 

I would also cut Nzeocha and keep Walker (600K difference for the same role), cut Beathard (1m dollar hit), cut Compton (said to be the worst person on the field during camp, $2m hit). I've said that I'm probably not re-signing Juice if he wants a similar salary. I'm always looking for ways to free up some space and have been beating this drum for a while. I mess with the cap all of the time. I mean, this is kind of my role in this forum lol. I've advocated for trading Thomas for this reason because I don't think the net gain we get from him on the roster is worth nearly 4.5 million dollars. I have a lot of ideas and notions on how to protect ourselves from a potential cap drop next year without drastically altering our chances at keeping a super  bowl window open. If someone wanted to argue that I let the cap influence too many of my decisions, I would not altogether disagree. 

1 hour ago, y2lamanaki said:

I'm sorry if I don't see the brilliance in replacing people AND losing draft picks AND not even getting any contributions. 

I mean, that's fine. I get never drafting a quarterback if you have a starter. This is how  the draft works sometimes though. 

1 hour ago, y2lamanaki said:

Also, sure you could re-sign Josh Rosen, but you could do the same thing with Mullens in the offseason. Nothing says we MUST sign him to a RFA tender. We have a cap wizard. Use him. Now we saved the same amount, and don't need to lose a draft pick to attempt to rebuild a former first round pick about to join team #3 in year #3.

We certainly could. And we would have an entire year to figure that out and maybe make it happen. If it does, I'm okay with the worst thing happening is losing a marginal pick that likely wouldn't have a significant impact to the team anyway. Right now, my projection would be that he's playing on the tender, just like we are doing with Bourne. 

You're not cool with using a 6th or 7th round pick in such a way, and that's fine. I'm willing to gamble on something with Rosen and perhaps shave a little cost at the same time (and who knows...maybe we could even get something back for Mullens, though that's not guaranteed) 

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I mean, honestly, had we more picks in the later rounds, I probably would have advocated drafting a guy this year. I likely wouldn't have hated it if we had taken one anyway, and that would have solely been as a backup who maybe one day could start

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