Around the NFL III - The NFLiest Yet

[757-NINER]

1 hour ago, BayRaider said:

Did you guys ever have super Jimmy G Homers? Like I’ll never understand such crazy homerism for Middle of the Pack QB’s, that are the 13th best QB in the league on a good day. 
 

Certain Raider Fans during the off-season: Why would you want Brady, he is totally washed up and his arm is literally toast!

Me: His arm is toast…? Did you watch his 2019 games? His velocity hasn’t changed at all. Are you listening to the media, box scouting, or both?

Certain Raider Fans: He was garbage in 2019, he’ll be garbage in 2020!

Me: He wasn’t garbage at all in 2019… he legit had the worst WR/RB/TE core in the NFL. 32nd. Legit god-awful unit. What Bellichick did to him was downright filthy. He is going to win the Super Bowl this year with Tampa Bay, and I’m not even a Brady fan. 
 

Certain Raiders Fans: LOLLLLLL. You’re a moron! Carr is 10000x better than Brady!

*Brady wins the Super Bowl*
 

Certain Raider Fans: Carr would of won the Super Bowl AND MVP on that super stacked team!!! What Brady did was not impressive at all!!

*Me Wanting Rodgers*
 

Certain Raider Fans: LOLLL we wouldn’t do anything with Rodgers, our roster is not good enough, and Carr is in his prime!! Rodgers adds one win, topps!

Me: No…. with Carr, you are probably looking at a 9-8 season at best. With Rodgers you are probably looking at 12-5 and a Conf Championship appearance. Elite QBs MATTER. They make your team 5x better instantly. Super Bowl win in 2021? Likely not, but 2022? Sure. 
 

Raider Fans: LOLLLL Carr is a Top 10 QB, we don’t need Rodgers. 
 

Me: Sigh. Rodgers is a Top 2 QB while Carr is 14th-15th. 
 

Basically my life in the Raider Subforum. 

I understand your frustrations. And I do like Carr. Alot more than I like Jimmy tbh. But Rodgers is on another planet in terms of talent. Like it shouldn't even be debatable which QBs you want to hitch your wagons to if given the option.

As far as Brady, I believe that Bucs defense just started clicking at the right time and it fueled their offense for that SB run. Just like in boxing, football is all about styles & match-ups. And I believe Tampa Bay was/is a bad match-up for Green Bay defensively. It was less about Brady and more about how Bowles and that defense started to find their groove at the right time. If you study what we did to them in both match-ups in 2019 and how Tampa played them in 2020, schematically it was almost identical.

[BayRaider]

17 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

I understand your frustrations. And I do like Carr. Alot more than I like Jimmy tbh. But Rodgers is on another planet in terms of talent. Like it shouldn't even be debatable which QBs you want to hitch your wagons to if given the option.

As far as Brady, I believe that Bucs defense just started clicking at the right time and it fueled their offense for that SB run. Just like in boxing, football is all about styles & match-ups. And I believe Tampa Bay was/is a bad match-up for Green Bay defensively. It was less about Brady and more about how Bowles and that defense started to find their groove at the right time. If you study what we did to them in both match-ups in 2019 and how Tampa played them in 2020, schematically it was almost identical.

I think you’re vastly underestimating Brady. They don’t touch the Super Bowl with Jimmy or Carr. 

[757-NINER]

26 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I think you’re vastly underestimating Brady. They don’t touch the Super Bowl with Jimmy or Carr. 

This isn't about Brady versus Carr/Jimmy. You're changing the goalposts here... 

We're talking about a QB who threw three ints in the NFCCG and barely threw for 200 yards in his other two postseason games. Brady is still a clear notch above the majority but the days of his arm carrying offenses to the Super Bowl are over imo.

He did no heavy lifting in that Bucs championship run. He made the plays that were there to make, plays you'd expect from a future first ballot HOF and one of the greatest to ever do it. But make no mistake about it, he and that offense benefited greatly from a defense that hit their peak at the right time. A defense who turned in two back-to-back great performances against two of the most naturally gifted QBs the league has ever seen. Let's not get lost in that fact while you're giving Brady his flowers. 

And I still believe he isn't the best fit for what Arians really wants to do offensively...but that's a topic for another day.

[BayRaider]

29 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

This isn't about Brady versus Carr/Jimmy. You're changing the goalposts here... 

We're talking about a QB who threw three ints in the NFCCG and barely threw for 200 yards in his other two postseason games. Brady is still a clear notch above the majority but the days of his arm carrying offenses to the Super Bowl are over imo.

He did no heavy lifting in that Bucs championship run. He made the plays that were there to make, plays you'd expect from a future first ballot HOF and one of the greatest to ever do it. But make no mistake about it, he and that offense benefited greatly from a defense that hit their peak at the right time. A defense who turned in two back-to-back great performances against two of the most naturally gifted QBs the league has ever seen. Let's not get lost in that fact while you're giving Brady his flowers. 

And I still believe he isn't the best fit for what Arians really wants to do offensively...but that's a topic for another day.

While I agree the Buc Defense was solid in that run, they wouldn’t of been there without the Buccaneer offense to begin with. The Bucs Offense was ranked 3rd in DVOA during the season while the Defense was 6th. Jimmy or Carr would not have gotten 11 wins on that football team, Brady legit was a Top 5 MVP candidate. If you are insisting the Bucs would of made the playoffs, and also won the championship, with any middle of the road QB like Jimmy or Carr, you are soarly mistaken. Although I certainly agree the defense was the MVP of the playoffs, no question what so ever. 

[757-NINER]

14 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

While I agree the Buc Defense was solid in that run, they wouldn’t of been there without the Buccaneer offense to begin with. The Bucs Offense was ranked 3rd in DVOA during the season while the Defense was 6th. Jimmy or Carr would not have gotten 11 wins on that football team, Brady legit was a Top 5 MVP candidate. If you are insisting the Bucs would of made the playoffs, and also won the championship, with any middle of the road QB like Jimmy or Carr, you are soarly mistaken. Although I certainly agree the defense was the MVP of the playoffs, no question what so ever. 

Again, where did I say this??

Did I even insinuate that sentiment??

All I said was Brady's SB run had as much to do with that defense, if not more so than his arm. That's all I'm saying...

 

Edited May 8, 2021 by 757-NINER

[BayRaider]

Just now, 757-NINER said:

Again, where did I say this??

Did I even insinuate that sentiment??

All I said was Brady's SB run has as much to do with that defense, if not more than his arm. That's all I'm saying...

 

I don’t disagree with that statement. Although it doesn’t change my view that an Elite QB makes a team 5x better as well. 
 

Bucs are one of the most balanced teams ever and both the offense and defense played a huge role. No arguments there. 
 

I thought you were insinuating this team might win the Super Bowl with Jimmy or Carr at the helm because of defense and I apologize if I misunderstood. They would not of even made the playoffs with either of those QB’s. 

[757-NINER]

1 minute ago, BayRaider said:

I don’t disagree with that statement. Although it doesn’t change my view that an Elite QB makes a team 5x better as well. 
 

Bucs are one of the most balanced teams ever and both the offense and defense played a huge role. No arguments there. 
 

I thought you were insinuating this team might win the Super Bowl with Jimmy or Carr at the helm because of defense and I apologize if I misunderstood. They would not of even made the playoffs with either of those QB’s. 

Well I would hope most would understand elite QBs elevate your team as a whole, not just your offense.

And we'll see how the Bucs respond this year. Though their division has gotten weaker with the departure of Brees, I expect their road back to the SB to be much harder in 2020. I think the NFC representative in the Super Bowl comes out of the NFC West. If we get Sherman back, I like our chances but wouldn't surprise me if it were the Rams or Cards.

[BayRaider]

3 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Well I would hope most would understand elite QBs elevate your team as a whole, not just your offense.

And we'll see how the Bucs respond this year. Though their division has gotten weaker with the departure of Brees, I expect their road back to the SB to be much harder in 2020. I think the NFC representative in the Super Bowl comes out of the NFC West. If we get Sherman back, I like our chances but wouldn't surprise me if it were the Rams or Cards.

NFC West could legit be any of the four, and I can’t say that about any other division. I think it’ll be the 49ers if Jimmy is kept and he stays healthy. Rams also will be pretty good with Stafford and that defense in theory. Seahawks are always a tough team to gauge but I see a .500ish year for them. Cards could be 6-11, they could be 11-6, another hard one… but I have them at 7-10. Their secondary is just awful and they will be on the losing side of many shootouts again. 

[rudyZ]

14 hours ago, BayRaider said:

While I agree the Buc Defense was solid in that run, they wouldn’t of been there without the Buccaneer offense to begin with. The Bucs Offense was ranked 3rd in DVOA during the season while the Defense was 6th. Jimmy or Carr would not have gotten 11 wins on that football team, Brady legit was a Top 5 MVP candidate. If you are insisting the Bucs would of made the playoffs, and also won the championship, with any middle of the road QB like Jimmy or Carr, you are soarly mistaken. Although I certainly agree the defense was the MVP of the playoffs, no question what so ever. 

That offense was great because it was stacked. But it is a fact that it wouldn't have been that stacked without Brady. Gronk, AB and probably Fournette only signed there because of Brady. So if you want to compare the offenses with or without Brady, those guys need to be considered. Do they even draft Wirfs if they don't have Brady, or do they address a different need? If you put Carr with all those weapons, he'd have a terrific season. But you couldn't have put Carr with all those weapons, because all those weapons were there because of Brady.

[N4L]

22 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

He did no heavy lifting in that Bucs championship run

I think you are discounting how much his leadership meant to that team. He was the one that pushed them across the finish line. He was texting teammates inspirational stuff everyday at like 6am. The young guys rallied around him. It's a rare time where a QB can take SOME of the credit for the defense. Those guys stepped up FOR and because of Brady. They bought in completely. I don't think that team wins while getting literally the same exact contribution from another QB on the field. 

So, while the rest of the team was stacked, Brady was the one who galvanized that team, and for that reason this ring counts just as much as any of his others. 

[757-NINER]

22 minutes ago, N4L said:

I think you are discounting how much his leadership meant to that team. He was the one that pushed them across the finish line. He was texting teammates inspirational stuff everyday at like 6am. The young guys rallied around him. It's a rare time where a QB can take SOME of the credit for the defense. Those guys stepped up FOR and because of Brady. They bought in completely. I don't think that team wins while getting literally the same exact contribution from another QB on the field. 

So, while the rest of the team was stacked, Brady was the one who galvanized that team, and for that reason this ring counts just as much as any of his others. 

I'm not discounting leadership. We're talking strictly on field production and play. Leadership is fine and is a important aspect of success. But it isn't something that can be measured or quantified. YOU say he can take some credit for the defense. That's very debatable for me however. I'd give more credit to Bowles and his staff. Guys like White who had been a vocal leader in the media and a lightning rod for that unit towards the later part of that season.

They beat Green Bay despite Brady, not because of him. And if GB would have somehow came back and pulled off the comeback, all the talk would have been centered around Brady and his how his interceptions allowed Rodgers & Co. to stay in the game.   

Edited May 9, 2021 by 757-NINER

[N4L]

13 hours ago, 757-NINER said:

I'm not discounting leadership. We're talking strictly on field production and play. Leadership is fine and is a important aspect of success. But it isn't something that can be measured or quantified. YOU say he can take some credit for the defense. That's very debatable for me however. I'd give more credit to Bowles and his staff. Guys like White who had been a vocal leader in the media and a lightning rod for that unit towards the later part of that season.

They beat Green Bay despite Brady, not because of him. And if GB would have somehow came back and pulled off the comeback, all the talk would have been centered around Brady and his how his interceptions allowed Rodgers & Co. to stay in the game.   

You aren't wrong, but that doesn't make you right.

Football is an emotional game. If you don't see how Brady gave the bucs and emotional edge that ultimately got them a ring, I don't know what to tell you. 

Put yourself in Devin whites shoes. Yes, you are an incredible player in your own right, but you are basically a rookie and you look across the field and you see a 43 year old pushing himself and everyone else in a way youve never seen before ... Brady has that clout. These young guys grew up seeing him hoist Lombardis. 

He absolutely deserves credit for it. Bruce Arians let him coach the team. He understands that his best chance of winning is Brady being Brady. Brady totally changed the dynamic of the locker room. Everyone bought in like they would have never done with another QB. It seems like a subjective statement but I view it as a statement of fact. 

PS - Devin white was the best ILB prospect since pwilly. I bet money on bosa DROY, and I hedged it with a Devin white DROY bet. He has what it takes to be an alltime great at the position. If he was in the 2017 draft, I can say in confidence he would have been taken #3 overall. (hopefully) we run into the bucs this year in the playoffs, and if it happens, that defense has the potential to give us problems 

PSS - IN KYLE WE TRUST 

Edited May 10, 2021 by N4L

[J-ALL-DAY]

Peter King said 60/40 that the Falcons trade Julio.

The question is where? Can the Packers somehow pull this off or impossible with their cap situation? Getting Julio may be one thing that could keep Rodgers in town lol. 

[GW21]

37 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Peter King said 60/40 that the Falcons trade Julio.

The question is where? Can the Packers somehow pull this off or impossible with their cap situation? Getting Julio may be one thing that could keep Rodgers in town lol. 

Davante Adams, Julio Jones, and Aaron Rodgers would be scary. Their defense isn't great, but that offense would be electric.  

[NcFinest9erFan]

Seen a few of these videos with Zach Wilson. Getting Derek Carr vibes.