Around the NFL III - The NFLiest Yet

[SBLIII]

On 11/28/2021 at 9:15 PM, 49ers Finest said:

Kendrick Bourne with a great play and TD for the patriots.

He's having a nice season there

Thank you for Bourne.

[J-ALL-DAY]

12 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

Right now, it's McVay and the gameplan when they face those better teams. It's like he'd rather get into a aerial duel and go throw-for-throw with A-Rod than playing to your strengths and using your run game. He abandons the run way too early and he doesn't use tempo like did with Goff to put defenses on their heels. And make no mistake about it, they absolutely miss Woods. OBJ will help them with how much he'll help open up space for Kupp to work. But Woods did so much in terms of his route tree and being able play all three WR positions seamlessly, from play to play. 

McVay didn't force Stafford to throw one of the worst INTs you will see vs the Titans and then another one right after that...McVay did not force Stafford to throw into double coverage trying to force it to OBJ when he didn't have a prayer to make a play on the ball. Sorry, that was ALL on Stafford.

I even mentioned that the game flow has been messed up the last three weeks due to the turnovers and Stafford owns a lot of that...But ideally they do need to run it more and then use PA off of that. 

Stafford will need to prove he can get it done against good teams period. 

[Forge]

20 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

I mean what is bad about the supporting cast he has right now? He's really never not had good weapons around him. 

This isn't to say he isn't a good QB or even a very good QB because he certainly is. But it would be silly to ignore his performances throughout his career against good teams. Simply has not got it done.

I don't have an issue with his cast. As mentioned earlier, I do have some confusion on what McVay is doing. Some of his playcalling and schemes have been straight up baffling.  He's down 10% in play action. He went from top of the league to middle of the pack. Up 10% in empty sets and spreading the field even wider.

Part of the reason I wanted Stafford was to put a more talented QB than guys like Baker / Cousins / Jimmy into an offense that creates efficient monsters. I wouldn't have expected 2020 Aaron Rodgers, but I would have expected more than 2019 Jimmy G. So I'm confused what the purpose is of getting Stafford when you're actively making that choice. Like...just why? 

The biggest concern is the back. I know jrry is worried about it as well. And now we are hearing the dreaded word, "chronic". I don't think we've heard that before and that has to be a huge concern. There has been talk for 4 weeks (before the losing streak) that he was a little banged up. Nobody said anything because he was playing through and we didn't have any evidence that it was going to bug him. But I think there's a chance it really is.

I don't really put stock in the "record against winning teams" thing. How many of those games was he reasonably expected to win on an awful Lions team? He also has a ton of 4th Q and last drive victories, so I Don't think it's a situation where he's getting lost in the moment. It's just one of those things. 6 quarterbacks have winning records against winning teams coming into the year for their career. I believe 3 quarterbacks had winning records against winning teams last year. 

 Since 2012, Rodgers, playing on a team that has won at least 10 games in 70% of those years (which is skewed by one of those years having Rodgers out for most of the season), has a .424 winning percentage. I'm willing to bet that playing on that team for those years, he probably should have won more than 42% of those games. Jimmy G meanwhile, is one of the 6 who has a career +.500 record against winning teams. Just one of those things sometimes. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

I don't have an issue with his cast. As mentioned earlier, I do have some confusion on what McVay is doing. Some of his playcalling and schemes have been straight up baffling.  He's down 10% in play action. He went from top of the league to middle of the pack. Up 10% in empty sets and spreading the field even wider.

Part of the reason I wanted Stafford was to put a more talented QB than guys like Baker / Cousins / Jimmy into an offense that creates efficient monsters. I wouldn't have expected 2020 Aaron Rodgers, but I would have expected more than 2019 Jimmy G. So I'm confused what the purpose is of getting Stafford when you're actively making that choice. Like...just why? 

The biggest concern is the back. I know jrry is worried about it as well. And now we are hearing the dreaded word, "chronic". I don't think we've heard that before and that has to be a huge concern. There has been talk for 4 weeks (before the losing streak) that he was a little banged up. Nobody said anything because he was playing through and we didn't have any evidence that it was going to bug him. But I think there's a chance it really is.

I don't really put stock in the "record against winning teams" thing. How many of those games was he reasonably expected to win on an awful Lions team? He also has a ton of 4th Q and last drive victories, so I Don't think it's a situation where he's getting lost in the moment. It's just one of those things. 6 quarterbacks have winning records against winning teams coming into the year for their career. I believe 3 quarterbacks had winning records against winning teams last year. 

 Since 2012, Rodgers, playing on a team that has won at least 10 games in 70% of those years (which is skewed by one of those years having Rodgers out for most of the season), has a .424 winning percentage. I'm willing to bet that playing on that team for those years, he probably should have won more than 42% of those games. Jimmy G meanwhile, is one of the 6 who has a career +.500 record against winning teams. Just one of those things sometimes. 

And Rodgers has one SB appearance for a reason. You may not think it matters but Rodgers has a lot of suspect moments in the playoffs where his teams have gotten blown out with him not playing close to his regular season self. 

Stafford has had some decent/good teams where his teams still weren't winning against those teams. I don't care about being .500, just be better than whatever the hell his record is lol. Before this season his record vs winning teams was 8-67. COME ON NOW! You're talking about Rodgers win % being .424?? Well, that is four times better what Stafford's record is lol.

But whatever, we will just let this play out and see what happens. I'm pretty sure I know what will happen but..........

[757-NINER]

20 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

McVay didn't force Stafford to throw one of the worst INTs you will see vs the Titans and then another one right after that...McVay did not force Stafford to throw into double coverage trying to force it to OBJ when he didn't have a prayer to make a play on the ball. Sorry, that was ALL on Stafford.

I even mentioned that the game flow has been messed up the last three weeks due to the turnovers and Stafford owns a lot of that...But ideally they do need to run it more and then use PA off of that. 

Stafford will need to prove he can get it done against good teams period. 

As I stated, his over confidence in his arm talent and inability at times to recognize coverages will lead him into trouble. Still, he's better than what you're giving him credit for when healthy. And that may also be a issue with him currently.

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 minutes ago, 757-NINER said:

As I stated, his over confidence in his arm talent and inability at times to recognize coverages will lead him into trouble. Still, he's better than what you're giving him credit for when healthy. And that may also be a issue with him currently.

I never said he isn't very good. He certainly is along with being a supreme talent. 

[Forge]

21 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

And Rodgers has one SB appearance for a reason. You may not think it matters but Rodgers has a lot of suspect moments in the playoffs where his teams have gotten blown out with him not playing close to his regular season self. 

Just about everyone does...playing well consistently against good teams isn't the standard, it's the outlier. Some of the all time greats have bad records against winning teams. Just one of those things. 

Eli was sub .300 against winning teams and has two super bowl rings. 

Each game is it's own entity with its own unique set of circumstances. Losing one game against a winning team is not indicative of what happens in the next. 

Winning is hard. Winning against good teams is harder. Winning super bowls is very hard...and all of this can be exceedingly random at times as well. 

21 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Stafford has had some decent/good teams where his teams still weren't winning against those teams. I don't care about being .500, just be better than whatever the hell his record is lol. Before this season his record vs winning teams was 8-67. COME ON NOW! You're talking about Rodgers win % being .424?? Well, that is four times better what Stafford's record is lol.

 

You'd love to see the record be better for sure, but it really doesn't mean all that much because I doubt someone is actually evaluating his performance in each of those games to establish the headline and as I said, his record in those doesn't tie into his ability to win a game against a winning team next week, for example. What kind of standard are you holding him to? If he's 30-40 for 400 yards, 3 touchdowns / 1 INT, is that on him? I don't hype up Jimmy's record when evaluating him as a QB, to do so with Stafford would seem disingenuous. 

 

21 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

But whatever, we will just let this play out and see what happens. I'm pretty sure I know what will happen but..........

I mean, thats not a crazy limb to walk out on. I could claim 32 teams aren't going to win the super bowl this and I'm right about 97% of it lol. I don't think that really establishes much. If he wins two playoff games and loses in the conference final, what does it mean? I'd say nothing.  I'd have no different opinion on him whatsoever. Nor would I evaluate him differently if he won it all. I don't think Nick Foles and Joe Flacco are better than they are just because they won one.  Winning super bowls isn't just about being good...its also  a matter of timing, being fortunate and getting through the weird stuff. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

1 minute ago, Forge said:

Just about everyone does...playing well consistently against good teams isn't the standard, it's the outlier. Some of the all time greats have bad records against winning teams. Just one of those things. 

Eli was sub .300 against winning teams and has two super bowl rings. 

Each game is it's own entity with its own unique set of circumstances. Losing one game against a winning team is not indicative of what happens in the next. 

Winning is hard. Winning against good teams is harder. Winning super bowls is very hard...and all of this can be exceedingly random at times as well. 

You'd love to see the record be better for sure, but it really doesn't mean all that much because I doubt someone is actually evaluating his performance in each of those games to establish the headline and as I said, his record in those doesn't tie into his ability to win a game against a winning team next week, for example. What kind of standard are you holding him to? If he's 30-40 for 400 yards, 3 touchdowns / 1 INT, is that on him? I don't hype up Jimmy's record when

I mean, thats not a crazy limb to walk out on. I could claim 32 teams aren't going to win the super bowl this and I'm right 97% of the time. I don't think that really establishes much. If he wins two playoff games and loses in the conference final, what does it mean? I'd say nothing.  I'd have no different opinion on him whatsoever. Nor would I evaluate him differently if he won it all. I don't think Nick Foles and Joe Flacco are better than they are just because they won one.  Winning super bowls isn't just about being good...its also  a matter of timing, being fortunate and getting through the weird stuff. 

Eli had two great postseason runs for sure but there's also a reason why he missed the playoffs so many times in between that.

That's the thing, there was a whole a lot of stat padding going on with Stafford that some people for some reason ignored. Even the game yesterday, they were down big and then he starts putting up big stats. Stafford is great at that and it makes it seem like he played a good game. He did not yesterday when the game was in the balance.

Jimmy G is definitely a weird case. We know he is average as it gets and everyone would prefer Stafford over him. But no one can deny he has SOMETHING in him that he is able to close the deal in these tight games.

No one would say Flacco or Foles are better. When people say QB X is not a SB caliber QB, that is nonsense. Any QB can go hot and win a SB. But the ones that are CONSISTENTLY winning are the top ones. Stafford has a crazy amount of top talent on his team right now. There are really no excuses, especially since we have seen a inferior QB in Goff get it done with this team. Granted, Goff legitimately had two really good seasons before falling off with McVay but we know that McVay along with this defense can find ways to get playoff wins. 

QBwinzzzz is not a thing...Or if it is a thing, it's not THE thing. However, when you have been in the league and have zero playoff wins and are so poor against winning teams and are continuing that trend with a top football team? Yeah idk man, I just don't know. I expect him to get some quality wins before season's end and have some big moments. But right now he has failed in the last three weeks and no one should be making excuses for him. 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

 

[J-ALL-DAY]

13 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

 

That's probably just due to his last three games, especially the ones against us and the Titans. He's still overall playing good ball but it was WAY too easy in the early going. That came from mainly playing bad defenses and their OL playing very well. Cards/Vikings/Ravens/Niners are four of the six games remaining. Should be fun! 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

15 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

That's probably just due to his last three games, especially the ones against us and the Titans. He's still overall playing good ball but it was WAY too easy in the early going. That came from mainly playing bad defenses and their OL playing very well. Cards/Vikings/Ravens/Niners are four of the six games remaining. Should be fun! 

All that talent and the Rams are pretty much where they were last year at this point. Still a ways to go as you implied. 

[J-ALL-DAY]

2 minutes ago, TecmoSuperJoe said:

All that talent and the Rams are pretty much where they were last year at this point. Still a ways to go as you implied. 

More damning is that the offense is taking a dip just like McVay's teams of the past few years. It's becoming a trend now of them starting out on fire and then slowing down to an average offense. 

McVay is going to need to start making some more in-season adjustments to the offense. He has a better QB now to get that done. 

[N4L]

1 minute ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

More damning is that the offense is taking a dip just like McVay's teams of the past few years. It's becoming a trend now of them starting out on fire and then slowing down to an average offense. 

McVay is going to need to start making some more in-season adjustments to the offense. He has a better QB now to get that done. 

 

[TecmoSuperJoe]

2 hours ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

Eli had two great postseason runs for sure but there's also a reason why he missed the playoffs so many times in between that.

That's the thing, there was a whole a lot of stat padding going on with Stafford that some people for some reason ignored. Even the game yesterday, they were down big and then he starts putting up big stats. Stafford is great at that and it makes it seem like he played a good game. He did not yesterday when the game was in the balance.

Jimmy G is definitely a weird case. We know he is average as it gets and everyone would prefer Stafford over him. But no one can deny he has SOMETHING in him that he is able to close the deal in these tight games.

No one would say Flacco or Foles are better. When people say QB X is not a SB caliber QB, that is nonsense. Any QB can go hot and win a SB. But the ones that are CONSISTENTLY winning are the top ones. Stafford has a crazy amount of top talent on his team right now. There are really no excuses, especially since we have seen a inferior QB in Goff get it done with this team. Granted, Goff legitimately had two really good seasons before falling off with McVay but we know that McVay along with this defense can find ways to get playoff wins. 

QBwinzzzz is not a thing...Or if it is a thing, it's not THE thing. However, when you have been in the league and have zero playoff wins and are so poor against winning teams and are continuing that trend with a top football team? Yeah idk man, I just don't know. I expect him to get some quality wins before season's end and have some big moments. But right now he has failed in the last three weeks and no one should be making excuses for him. 

Warren Moon. Played for many years with big seasons under his belt. Never even made a championship game appearance. And he's in the HOF. It can happen for sure. Just because has the bigger trigger doesn't necessarily mean that one is the bigger winner. 

Edited November 30, 2021 by TecmoSuperJoe

[Forge]

Going to be pissed if this Seattle team takes us to the woodshed