GDT Week 14: Denver Broncos @ Houston Texans: Drewcember continues!

[germ-x]

What sucks with Denver is Shelby Harris and Simmons should’ve been locked up before they hit the market.  That’s tough to do with a revolving door at HC, however....both could’ve been had on cheap deals prior to this offseason.  Shelby Harris isn’t going to break the bank and if Denver wants him they can get him on a reasonable deal.  Simmons, however, Denver could get out priced on.

I will say, I trust Fangio to get the guys in the building he wants on the defensive side of the ball and for them to be successful.  

[BroncoBruin]

13 minutes ago, germ-x said:

What sucks with Denver is Shelby Harris and Simmons should’ve been locked up before they hit the market.  That’s tough to do with a revolving door at HC, however....both could’ve been had on cheap deals prior to this offseason.  Shelby Harris isn’t going to break the bank and if Denver wants him they can get him on a reasonable deal.  Simmons, however, Denver could get out priced on.

I will say, I trust Fangio to get the guys in the building he wants on the defensive side of the ball and for them to be successful.  

There is 0% chance Denver lets Simmons hit the market. At worst, it will be a franchise tag dance. 

[AKRNA]

15 minutes ago, germ-x said:

What sucks with Denver is Shelby Harris and Simmons should’ve been locked up before they hit the market.  That’s tough to do with a revolving door at HC, however....both could’ve been had on cheap deals prior to this offseason.  Shelby Harris isn’t going to break the bank and if Denver wants him they can get him on a reasonable deal.  Simmons, however, Denver could get out priced on.

I will say, I trust Fangio to get the guys in the building he wants on the defensive side of the ball and for them to be successful.  

Probably more accurate to say "before they played out their contract". In any case, I agree. We should already be looking at extending Sutton and Lindsay prior to their 4th seasons. 

Elways propensity for allowing "the market" to set our FA's prices is not a good strategy when you're talking core personnel.

Personally I'd like to see him adapt BB's strategy. If it's a player he wants to keep he either extends him prior to his contract year or trades him. Once they've played out their contract the team has 0 leverage.

[germ-x]

31 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

There is 0% chance Denver lets Simmons hit the market. At worst, it will be a franchise tag dance. 

Again I get it.  He was nothing more than a solid player up until this year.  Coaching and scheme may have been what put him over the top.  Don’t necessarily blame that on Elway and Co.  But he could’ve been locked up far cheaper if presented a contract prior to this year.

[The Helicopter]

A nice surprise...let’s keep it rolling.

[BroncoBruin]

42 minutes ago, germ-x said:

Again I get it.  He was nothing more than a solid player up until this year.  Coaching and scheme may have been what put him over the top.  Don’t necessarily blame that on Elway and Co.  But he could’ve been locked up far cheaper if presented a contract prior to this year.

Yeah they're going to be forced into an overpay unfortunately. But there's so much team control in this sport, if you really want to keep a guy you will. 

[anewdawn]

4 hours ago, The Helicopter said:

A nice surprise...let’s keep it rolling.

OMG!!  What surprises me, maybe even stuns me is that when I heard we were going to Lock two games ago, I thought it was unfair to him.  He was so limited in reps that I thought we were putting him in a position to fail.  Well there has to be something to that virtual stuff he was doing.  I have always been a huge believer in visualization as a tool and whatever Drew did to be so ready well kudos to him.  Nice to get the QB issue resolved once and for all and I am rooting for them to win.  As far as the draft goes it's bap.  Imagine adding a LT or a speedy receiver or just having the ability to go after the best player there!   NICE!! 

[French Fan]

4 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

Yeah they're going to be forced into an overpay unfortunately. But there's so much team control in this sport, if you really want to keep a guy you will. 

 

He takes advantage of the game scheme of Vic Fangio. Not a real DT nor a DE of his hybrid postion helps his use by defensive coaching. As much Simmons will be overpaid as Harris will not resign. Too expensive. Wolfe will be retained at a lower price with equal efficiency. This is the advantage of having a Defensive Coordinator of the Fangio level. Even if it's not the perfect Head Coach it makes the defense better than it actually is

[lomaxgrUK]

9 hours ago, BullsandBroncos said:

As a corner, sure. He was terrible at corner. 

"Terrible" is an exaggeration, especially when you look at CB play around the league.

He was brought here to be a Safety; it isn't his fault we got injuries at CB to go along with an already thin group. The fact is, he's been an elite player since moving to Safety full time and he should be praised for that.

6 hours ago, germ-x said:

What sucks with Denver is Shelby Harris and Simmons should’ve been locked up before they hit the market.  That’s tough to do with a revolving door at HC, however....both could’ve been had on cheap deals prior to this offseason.  Shelby Harris isn’t going to break the bank and if Denver wants him they can get him on a reasonable deal.  Simmons, however, Denver could get out priced on.

I will say, I trust Fangio to get the guys in the building he wants on the defensive side of the ball and for them to be successful.  

Re: Harris I think you're absolutely correct. It's hard to know for sure because we don't know how much money he was asking for, but I really didn't see that big of a risk to signing him last offseason. Many of us have written extensively about how good he's been since getting playing time in Denver. I think Elway missed the boat there and it's going to be tough to keep him.

Re: Simmons - i think there's a bit of revisionist history there. Simmons was a poor tackling Safety that didn't play up to his athletic traits coming into this season. Lets not forget that. I don't recall anyone around here (myself included) asking for him to be signed to a long term deal last offseason. His development into a top, top Safety has come to a surprise for all of us and I believe that's something we couldn't have avoided.

As @BroncoBruin eluded to, we've got the Franchise Tag to fall back on at least for him but I would love to sign up long term. He's been incredible this year and he seems a real leader by the way he speaks.

Edited December 9, 2019 by lomaxgrUK

[lomaxgrUK]

I should have added to my initial post-game comments that I hated Lock's antics on the Texans sideline after he ran for a 1st down. I am all for confidence but that is stupid. You're on the 50 yard line - get back to the huddle and call the next play.

[thebestever6]

7 hours ago, AKRNA said:

You'd think it would.

How about the potential offensive free agents like Emmanuel Sanders when Manning was here

[elliot878]

2 hours ago, thebestever6 said:

How about the potential offensive free agents like Emmanuel Sanders when Manning was here

Two, or if it ends up being five games doesn't earn you that kind of reputation.  Will agree that it makes Elways sales pitch to free agents a while lot easier if Lock continues to look like the guy. 

[thebestever6]

1 hour ago, elliot878 said:

Two, or if it ends up being five games doesn't earn you that kind of reputation.  Will agree that it makes Elways sales pitch to free agents a while lot easier if Lock continues to look like the guy. 

When did Alshon Jeffrey go to the Eagles?

[broncos67]

I was incredible pleased with the play of the entire team yesterday, but obviously, and especially, Drew Lock. That was a masterful performance all around, from playcalling, to actual on-field performance. I saw actual creativity in the route combinations, and Lock made a lot of good decisions. I loved his swagger and his energy the entire time.

Now, I want to see how he responds after a game like this. Does he keep it up? Does he show signs of continuing to progress, improve the back foot throwing motion, etc..? That's what will determine his future. There's a lot to be excited about though.

The entire team played great. Noticed a lot of the Noah Fant bashing has died down on Twitter. He's looked significantly better. 

The defense looked awesome. Simmons was great. Kareem Jackson was an absolute terror. I loved seeing it. Best part- this didn't significantly impact our draft position.

[Broncofan]

Well, I'm a happy dude today.  Still have concerns long-term, but that was an A+ performance for any rookie.     Doesn't mean Lock's a lock to be the answer (yes I went there) - but he's basically produced better than any rookie / QBOTF guy ever has in the Elway era.  Now, he's still got a ton of work left to do (footwork, read progression especially weren't great) - but his arm talent and mobility, combined with his willingness to use both, are just more advanced than anyone we've had.

If there's one FANTASTIC source to read, follow Matt Waldman - his QB/RB analyses are out of this world - and he does another fantastic job of summarizing Lock's performance - footwork (throwing off-balance), read progression being the 2 big areas where D's will exploit him (but arm talent is clearly what is different).   Last week he had 1 thread, here there are several, but I recommend fans read them all (as last week, he took time to point out the good and bad, so no different this week - just the results were almost all good, but he points out the process areas to improve in - really worth a read):

 

 

 

https://twitter.com/MattWaldman/status/1203834854405746690?s=20

Waldman's conclusion is obvious - for a rookie, this is really great progress.    What I like about Waldman is that last week, when Lock did very little in the 2H, he highlighted the good that was there, while pointing out what flaws need addressing.  This week, with great results, he still goes through process, to show where it needs improving, while still praising him for what he did well.    Really great analysis and worth following (hopefully in 1 Twitter  thread lol). 

Either way, let's be clear - to be even at this stage for a rookie, it's a great sign.   And most of all, the talk of QB early in 2020 can now a merciful death.   Huzzah.

A HUGE nod to OC Scangarelli after getting abused by the fanbase & press (and to be fair, his ability to adjust in 2H has been a legit issue, and the TNF debacle vs. KC was totally deserved to get heat).   He dialed up a fantastic gameplan.     And unlike the LAC game, they opened up the full playbook.    The amount of creativity and specific targeting of Fant vs. the HOU safeties (who really are their weakest point, and where NE could not exploit them), shows how OC Scangarelli really is able to break down opponent film and find matchups to target.   The lack of 2H progress this year shows where Scangarelli needs to improve is with in-game adjustments - but for a rookie OC with no experience, this is fantastic progress

As for our D - nothing really new.   We're still weak in RB pass D with our ILB's, and our 2nd/3rd CB's are still going to have trouble.   HOU has our problem - a bottom 5-10 pass pro unit, and we took advantage.   I'd like to see how we do against a better OL (and so KC is going to be a better test), but it was encouraging to see the DL pick up without much, if any L, on the front 3, without Wolfe.    

Now, we're never as bad as our worst game - but we're also not as good as our best game.    On a very related note, the belief before last week's SNF game was that NE was going to abuse HOU's leaky pass D - and HOU's dominance made us believe they were a top pass D.   But NE's struggles yesterday vs. KC probably shows us that flip side - HOU's D isn't that great.   Still, to succeed against ANY half-decent D, that's a feather in Lock's cap.   No way around it.  

Honestly, nothing but good news all around.

 

Before ppl get too high on our 2020 chances - talent-wise, we've still got the same major issues about roster depth.  That hasn't changed.  What has changed - this team is playing WAY above its head talent wise.   It shows what good coaching can do - and yes, I do believe it's the coaching here.    Fangio has had this D operate without a true CB2 & CB3 since Bausby went out in the 1st Charger game, and we're still a liability on ILB pass D (the MIN/BUF/LAC games showed that).   On O, we've had Fant join Sutton, but that's basically it in the pass game.   It's also pretty clear that OC Scangarelli is still learning, the biggest problem was Elway trading for Joe Flacco, the totally opposite fit of what a Shanny-based O scheme is looking for.  And remember, this was also Elway & co. who actually seriously considered sitting Drew Lock for an ENTIRE season - so let's keep in mind where the blame truly lies here for 2019.    I really don't get how Fangio & Scangarelli were getting scapegoated for Elway's very flawed QB decisions.  Elway may have saved his job security with Lock (duh) if this all works out, and Fangio/Scangarelli might ultimately fail down the road when it matters, but if nothing else, the team is playing WAY above its head for the talent given - and that's a huge feather in the cap for the coaching staff.

Now that teams see what Lock can do with a full playbook - time to see how they will adjust.   DET & OAK's pass D's are bottom half D's - and KC's are exploitable.   I don't think we'll beat DET, and if OAK has something to play for (unclear now) week 17, then they'll come out ready to play - DET's crippled with their 3rd string QB and nothing to play for.   Either way, it really does give real hope that we're on the right track.  I don't believe our talent is ready yet for the big jump in 2020 - but we're a lot closer if QB is addressed, and at the very worst, Lock looks like the best QBOTF we've had in Elway's era, no matter if this is his best game ever in his career.    Hope is real here, thankfully.

Edited December 9, 2019 by Broncofan