TheKillerNacho Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, iknowcool said: Okay and again, correlation /=/ causation. How does the performance of a teams next HC have ANYTHING to do with when they fired their previous coach? Would Freddie Kitchens be better if Hue wasn’t fired midseason? There is no relation. Again, I never stated correlation equals causation. Merely the correlation exists. It's entirely likely that some other problem leads to both, or that bad organizations tend to fire their coaches midseason as you stated. I'm not sure why you're projecting that I'm claiming a casual relationship onto my posts. Would Freddie be better if Hue wasn't fired midseason? No, but he'd probably not be the Browns HC right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Just now, TheKillerNacho said: Again, I never stated correlation equals causation. Merely the correlation exists. I'm not sure why you're projecting onto my posts. Because you are claiming that correlation is why firing Rivera midseason is the wrong move. But if you agree there’s no causation, then why does it matter? I’m not projecting anything onto your posts. I simply said this move isn’t bad and that in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter. You disagree because of the correlation, which only makes sense if you actually think it’s what causes the future lack of success. And if you don’t think that, then I’m not sure exactly why you think the move is so bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilenFroggen Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 The madlads went and did it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, iknowcool said: Okay and again, correlation /=/ causation. How does the performance of a teams next HC have ANYTHING to do with when they fired their previous coach? Would Freddie Kitchens be better if Hue wasn’t fired midseason? Also I’m already questioning that because McVay has definitely worked out and Fisher was fired in December. And that was just off the top of my head Kitchens might not have been hired if Hue wasnt fired, though. So the Browns might have ended up with a better HC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Matts4313 said: Kitchens might not have been hired if Hue wasnt fired, though. So the Browns might have ended up with a better HC. “Is there any coach who would have done better if a team didn’t fire their previous coach midseason?” is a better question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 16 minutes ago, iknowcool said: Because you are claiming that correlation is why firing Rivera midseason is the wrong move. But if you agree there’s no causation, then why does it matter? I’m not projecting anything onto your posts. I simply said this move isn’t bad and that in the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter. You disagree because of the correlation, which only makes sense if you actually think it’s what causes the future lack of success. And if you don’t think that, then I’m not sure exactly why you think the move is so bad. Two things: 1. I never stated I think this will definitely harm the Panthers long term. 2. I already answered why: I see no advantage in doing it now whatsoever. So only the potential harm remains. I think it would be better to wait than not. Another thing I need to get off my chest since I see people do it all the time (so sorry in advance for this rant): Saying correlation =/= causation is NOT enough to dismiss that statement. Not only is it lazy, but it's a huge fallacy. Causation and correlation are too different things, true, but correlation isn't useless for prediction in the slightest. For example, I can see my coworker bring in his umbrella into work and even logically conclude it will probably rain later (or is already raining). Him bringing in an umbrella and it raining is correlated. I can use one of these events to predict the other (if it's raining, I can deduce my co-worker will bring in his umbrella; if my co-worker brings in his umbrella I can deduce it is or will rain). That doesn't mean I think that him bringing his umbrella into work causes it to rain later (or the reverse). While it's true that we should really try to find causation of a correlated phenomenon to better understand it, that doesn't dismiss that the correlation exists. In terms to this situation, I'm merely stating that firing a coach midseason and lack of success for a period afterwards is correlated. Which means one may cause the other (for instance, bad ownership/front offices are more inclined to fire a coach midseason, and also more inclined to make bad hiring decisions), or there is some other thing causing both. Or in something complicated like this, there's probably a ton of little strings of causation flying from various directions creating this anomaly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, iknowcool said: “Is there any coach who would have done better if a team didn’t fire their previous coach midseason?” is a better question why is this a better question? you pretty much brought up an example in which a team would be better off if they didn't fire a coach midseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: why is this a better question? you pretty much brought up an example in which a team would be better off if they didn't fire a coach midseason. Explain to me how the Browns would have been better off You’re telling me them keeping Hue Jackson an entire season would have then helped them hire a better head coach? In what world does that make sense lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 56 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: Why would he go to Green Bay? Isn't Pettine still doing well there? Not really. Our D looked okay early in the season but it has been giving up big plays like crazy for several weeks now. We are okay stopping the run but not so hot defending the pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedorchannel Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 hour ago, TheKillerNacho said: Frankly I don't know what they expected starting Kyle Allen at QB. Panthers being 5-7 is actually somewhat impressive. and still a chance to make the playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted December 3, 2019 Author Share Posted December 3, 2019 1 minute ago, iknowcool said: Explain to me how the Browns would have been better off You’re telling me them keeping Hue Jackson an entire season would have then helped them hire a better head coach? In what world does that make sense lol It would've certainly meant kitchens would have not been the hire if you know the history. So really the only other premise you need is that most other coaching candidates would be better (which is very likely true, imo) to reach that conclusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pugger Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 (edited) 45 minutes ago, raidersedge said: I was always a fan of Rivera but I totally understand why Panthers made this move. Just simply time to move on. Yes, usually after a while a HC will wear out his welcome as his message gets stale to his players. McCarthy is Exhibit A. Edited December 3, 2019 by Pugger 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malik Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedorchannel Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Malik said: am I crazy, or are those good numbers for both? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknowcool Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said: It would've certainly meant kitchens would have not been the hire if you know the history. So really the only other premise you need is that most other coaching candidates would be better (which is very likely true, imo) to reach that conclusion. Them not hiring Kitchens does not prove they would have been better off. They could have just as easily hired another equally bad coach... you know, the same thing they have done for years whether they fire a coach midseason or not. To suggest keeping Jackson a full season would have then helped them hire a better/good coach makes no sense whatsoever. It’s a ridiculous assertion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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