Allen Lazard's Future? "Best ball fighting hands I've ever seen"

[Leader]

Truth is I hope Lazard starts to actually do more catching with his hands. He (like MVS and not unlike many rookie WRs) has a tendency to "capture" the ball against his upper chest.

[SSG]

Using past Green Bay WRs as comps.

Celing-- James Jones-esk.  Low end #2, High end #3.    

Floor- GMO.  Closer to being a serviceable back up than a guy who you can trust to be an every week starter.

 

 

[Billy86]

I'm quite a big fan... but I don't know that is ceiling is sky-high. My guess would be that his ceiling is about a 50-60 catch, 700-850 yard type of player, but one who requires more attention than their numbers hint at due to sheer size/physicality, thus allowing others to find more space or better mismatches. I do think in the right setting though, he could eek his way over 70 yards and 1,000 a few times in his career.

As for with us, between Adams being a definitive no.1 in just about every sense of the word, MVS not looking like he will ever be a no.2 but still providing a serious deep threat, Lazard offers a good compliment to them. If EQ (who I think has the highest ceiling of any WR we've drafted since Adams) can build on looking like a smooth, quick and tall outside guy that he was filling late last season and if we can get a slot guy who can exploit seems and pockets underneath, I also think Lazard is an absolutely excellent fit for our offense, between all of these guys we would have a 'complete set' in terms of skillsets (albeit still waiting on unfulfilled potential).

Cons: He doesn't get open consistently enough, which is partly down to sheer inexperience but I also believe may be part of an inability to create 'true' separation or open a pocket of space by making a quick twitch movement - and I'm not sure if he will improve too much on the latter two, hence my putting his catch/yard totals a bit lower. He also has decent speed, but nothing particularly exciting, again due to a bit of a lack of shiftiness (someone mentioned Antonio Brown earlier, that guy is one of the slipperiest YAC guys I have ever seen... totally different to Lazard).

Pros: Size/strength - he doesn't actually need much separation esp with someone as accurate as Rodgers, because the guy is 6'5 and unlike MVS is very built and very physical*... he has good hands and seems to have that instinct to move for a ball a split-second earlier than some, which is a big thing for maximising size mismatches... on that note, he's a bit of a nightmare to match up with a shorter DB (even moreso with MVS and EQ also being so tall, and at least in MVS' case a proven big play threat) hence needing more attention than your usual 50-60 catch guy. He size/toughness is also a big plus in the red zone and 3rd and intermediate plays... I've not paid much attention to his run blocking but have to believe it has been very solid... he's a smart enough player and not just a brute... and of course, he has Rodgers' trust. Perhaps due to being a UDFA, he also doesn't give off any of that me-me-me vibe that can sometimes plague the WR position, which is a nice little plus.

I'm curious how he looks on broken plays too and admittedly haven't paid much attention, but it's something that tends to matter a lot to Rodgers.

*I think it was in his second game, against the Raiders, that he caught about a 3yd WR screen in soft coverage. He turned, faced the WR about 5-6 yards ahead of him, and instead on angling to the sidelines like most -which actually could have got him an extra yard or two- he just shot himself like a bull into the DB and ran him the **** over before a second guy came in to shove him out of bounds. Despite winding up a yard or two shorter than if he had angled out, I loved that and it something we have missed for nearly a decade: nastiness. and I'll absolutely bet that DB thought twice about tackling him the next time. Now by absolutely no means am I saying Lazard is going to be Gronkowski who is a first ballot HOFer o, but it reminded me of something he would do and is part of what I was referring to by 'freeing up space for others' in my first paragraph... I would not want Darnell Savage being caught out along against Lazard for example! (pre or post catch)

My guess is that we draft a WR in the top 3 rounds this year, and if that hits both that WR and EQ will likely be above Lazard on the depth chart in 3-4 years if Lazard is still at GB (I also think the likes of CAR, DAL, BAL or BUF would absolutely love him in their systems), but that he will at worst be a James Jones level type of player for us while here. I'm not as sold on an all-pro type ceiling but would absolutely love to be proven wrong!

 

Random fact: if you extrapolate his performances this year so far to a 16 game season (he only got on the field in the 4th quarter vs DAL), he would have 50 catches for 754 yards... pretty impressive!

[Billy86]

23 minutes ago, SSG said:

Using past Green Bay WRs as comps.

Celing-- James Jones-esk.  Low end #2, High end #3.    

Floor- GMO.  Closer to being a serviceable back up than a guy who you can trust to be an every week starter.

 

 

I know Geronimo has had injury issues (and I've always liked him as a 4th-or-lower on the chart WR), but it's worth mentioning that Lazard in 7 games (the first of which he was only in for the 4th quarter) has more yards than Allison has ever had in his career (330 vs 303), the same high for TDs (2) and is 5 catches off matching Allison's single season high there too. I'm not scoffing at the comparison of the two to be honest, just pointing out that the trajectory looks good!

Edited December 5, 2019 by Billy86

[JBURGE]

16 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

When is Godfather III coming out?  I didn’t even know they were making a third one.

Ignorance is bliss. I still havent seen it

[Cakeshoppe]

I’ll be that guy and say my instinct on him is that he’s this years’s JAG who caught on and he’ll get hype through next training camp but his snaps will gradually fade over the season until no one really thinks much of it when he doesn’t make opening cuts in 2021. 

 

Or at least that was what I thought until I saw Bertie’s take. Now I’m all in. 

[SSG]

1 hour ago, Cakeshoppe said:

I’ll be that guy and say my instinct on him is that he’s this years’s JAG who caught on and he’ll get hype through next training camp but his snaps will gradually fade over the season until no one really thinks much of it when he doesn’t make opening cuts in 2021. 

 

That description reminds me of Jarrett Boykin.  48 catches for 680 yards and 3 TDs (7 games with 5+ catches or 80+ yards receiving) in 2013.  3 catches for 27 yards over the rest of his NFL career.  

[incognito_man]

3 hours ago, Cakeshoppe said:

I’ll be that guy and say my instinct on him is that he’s this years’s JAG who caught on and he’ll get hype through next training camp but his snaps will gradually fade over the season until no one really thinks much of it when he doesn’t make opening cuts in 2021. 

 

Or at least that was what I thought until I saw Bertie’s take. Now I’m all in. 

Good choice. Can you name a time Bertie was wrong about Allen Lazard? I can't.

[Joe]

5 hours ago, vegas492 said:

I really like Lazard.  He can high point the ball pretty good and that should only get better.  He's physical.

But I don't think he has those elite WR traits that make him "special".  He can win now, 1:1.  I don't think he can win if he ever gets bracketed or doubled like we see happen to Adams.  He's just not that kind of athlete.

I dig him, but in the back of my mind, I really can't tell you the difference between him and Ruvell Martin.  Except that Lazard seems to "want it" more.  Yah, tenacious is a good word for him.  

Ideally he's a #3 or #4.

"Would he be" and "do we need him to be" are the rhetorical questions here. He's Geronimo's replacement at this point. I too think we invest in a WR early, but that doesn't mean Lazard is out of the picture at all. Rodgers likes him a lot and he could easily carry the WR3 tag coming into 2020 TC. If anything, the WR we draft this year eventually supplants Adams so we could see a depth chart of Adams, DP, Lazard, MVS, ESB, and MAYBE GMO.

[Green19]

3 hours ago, Cakeshoppe said:

I’ll be that guy and say my instinct on him is that he’s this years’s JAG who caught on and he’ll get hype through next training camp but his snaps will gradually fade over the season until no one really thinks much of it when he doesn’t make opening cuts in 2021. 

 

Or at least that was what I thought until I saw Bertie’s take. Now I’m all in. 

This ^^^ . Next year people will be saying he is too slow or is too tough and it gets in the way of him running routes or whatever when he isn’t getting targets from Rodgers.

[Arthur Penske]

What's his nickname? The Lazard King? Saint Lazardus?

[Gopackgonerd]

Only the top 5 guys can maybe beat bracketed coverage anyways so it's not like it matters. Besides if hes ever being doubled, **** that's good for us because you got Adam's one on one or MVS deep.

[vegas492]

People were talking about his "ceiling".  I threw out the bracket comment and regret it. 

The point of the comment was pretty simple.  I don't feel like he has #1 WR qualities.

I think, though, that he is a good player.  Not good enough, though, that GB shouldn't address the WR room this offseason, either via draft or free agency or both.

There's much to like about Lazard, yes.  And I think he ceiling is similar to James Jones, and there is nothing wrong with that.  But, I think that Lazard already high points the ball better than Jones.  But I think Prime Jones had more deep threat in him and much more savvy when running routes.

 

[Dubz41]

3 hours ago, vegas492 said:

People were talking about his "ceiling".  I threw out the bracket comment and regret it. 

The point of the comment was pretty simple.  I don't feel like he has #1 WR qualities.

I think, though, that he is a good player.  Not good enough, though, that GB shouldn't address the WR room this offseason, either via draft or free agency or both.

There's much to like about Lazard, yes.  And I think he ceiling is similar to James Jones, and there is nothing wrong with that.  But, I think that Lazard already high points the ball better than Jones.  But I think Prime Jones had more deep threat in him and much more savvy when running routes.

 

Lazard is learning though.  Heard, and agree with, LeRoy Butler suggest that Lazard just add 10 lbs and become our receiving TE.  Seam stretcher.  With him and Looney moving to TE we won't have to address it in the draft. Lazard is already almost as physical as any TE not named Lewis.

[vegas492]

1 hour ago, Dubz41 said:

Lazard is learning though.  Heard, and agree with, LeRoy Butler suggest that Lazard just add 10 lbs and become our receiving TE.  Seam stretcher.  With him and Looney moving to TE we won't have to address it in the draft. Lazard is already almost as physical as any TE not named Lewis.

Not sure why in the world you do that when you are already developing Tonyan and a recent 3rd round pick in Sternberger.

Keep coaching him up at WR.  There are more snaps for him there.