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Dorsey


Kiwibrown

How you feeling about Dorsey?  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. Im on the dorsey train

  2. 2. Dorsey vs Brown

  3. 3. Dorsey does not know how to build around Baker



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1 hour ago, Mind Character said:

Dorsey is an elite talent scout with blind spots.

His Blind spot scouting-wise is offensive lineman of all varieties and his willingness to draft high risk, high reward players that are unreliable.

Also blinded by the toughness and mentality of players in ways that seemingly distorts hi evaluation of their play traits. Corbett was tough as nails. Hand fighting; mean spirited highlights were delightful to watch.  However, It was as clear as the day is long that Austin Corbett wasn't a LT even clearer that he didn't have the feet or movement skills or blocking instincts to be a quality starter at OT and even OG. It was clear that Courtland Sutton was the far superior prospect.

Talent scouts aren't often elite at coaching searches/hires. 

OLine and Coaching Search.

In a wide-variety of other things, he's exceptional.

This.  I think an additional thing he has to be evaluated is his ability to hire coaches, which as far as I know he has no previous hires to really judge him on.

We went from two polar opposite GMs between Sashi and Dorsey on a few fronts.  One was good on asset acquisition and heavily delegated talent evaluation and coaching hires until it was his downfall.  The other spends assets and takes control of talent evaluation and coaching (until his downfall?)

It's hard to imagine us getting a strong minded, experienced coach if Dorsey wants to run the show, and I think obviously hiring Freddie Kitchens is a huge reason we underperformed.

It reminds me of when we switched from the Mangini Monarchy to the Holmgren era.  Not in personal philosophies, but in switching from one idea to a complete opposite.

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I'm not giving up on anyone yet. I think our main issue has been offensive line but I expected Hubbard to be average and Robinson to be about what he is and I figured we could hide RG better. I, and Dorsey were wrong.

I would keep Dorsey, Kitchens and Baker and see what next year brings (after we win out and miraculously make the playoffs and win the SB this year).

This was a learning experience and next year is do or die. I think we can succeed with the leaders we have. I've been wrong before though.

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I think Dorsey has done a solid job overall. His OL evaluation needs work, and his 2019 free agency acquisitions have underwhelmed as well. I couldn't care less that he's missed on guys like Callaway as a 4th rounder...the kid had 1st round potential, so even if he busts 90% of the time, there's still that 10% chance he becomes the next AB (first 10 year version). What hurts is missing on the Corbetts of the world in the 33rd slot and trading Avery, although I blame Wilks more for not playing him (have to recoup value if you can't get him on the field).

Hopefully DePo helps him navigate the cap, because we are going to have to pay Myles and have other decisions to make on who to sign/let walk in free agency. Personally, I hope that they sign Hunt and Chubb both to mid-tier 3 year deals now, resign Schobert, and let Randall/Richardson/Vernon/Hubbard walk.

We need more DL even with Myles, let alone without him, as the rotation is underwhelming and pass rush issues are apparent. Throw in the turnstyles at OT (with penalties galore), RG rotating door, and the DT's playing average at best, to go with concerns at safety, and I think that we have more holes than we would have liked to admit in August. 

I don't blame him, because after all, this was an 0-16 roster 18 months ago. You can't just turn that around overnight.

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40 minutes ago, braylon said:

Baker is absolutely a burner and a deep threat. The way people are starting to dismiss OBJ's talent is appalling. Is he underwhelming? Yes. Is he one of the best WRs in the league and one of the most talented WRs of all time? Also yes. 

I’m not disagreeing, but at some point that talent needs to produce.

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15 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

I’m not disagreeing, but at some point that talent needs to produce.

Agreed. I'm extremely frustrated by this season in terms of OBJ (and everything else, but this is the topic at hand). But "Obj is not a burner, he is nfl fast, but not above that, which baker needs."... Like c'mon. OBJ is a FREAK. He's so fast. He is, in theory, a perfect match for Baker. He's one of the best quick slant guys in the league (in terms of the route, the hands and the after the catch ability). He should feast in the short to intermediate areas of the field with his skillset, which I think is where we all have established is where Baker should be throwing the ball for the most part. 

It has been grossly frustrating watching this duo this year. When OBJ burns someone Baker doesn't even look his way. When OBJ creates nice separation Baker sails the damn ball. When Baker throws a dime OBJ has an untimely drop. I don't get it. But these two are too talented, they will eventually click. I hope we give them time to do so. 

One thing that I really hate is our refusal to use OBJ in the redzone/endzone. We made a point that one game and he drew multiple flags. We need to give him the chance to out-talent the man across from him more often.

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16 hours ago, Kiwibrown said:

In no way am i advocating for the removal of John Dorsey. He has some obvious strengths. His team has done a job of identifying talent in the later parts of the draft, and gambling on character. 

He has done a reasonably good job with the top end of the draft as well, with one clear whiff, corbett. 

However, he does not know, or has not effectively built around Baker. Not only bakers strengths but also his play style. Baker has some speed, but really is not a super effective scrambler. He is an accurate on time qb, who does not thrive off schedule. Some guys like wilson and big ben are more dangerous when things go bad, other guys are better when things go to plan, baker, peyton manning, tom brady. Not that baker should be put in the same breathe as either of those two. 

This where we should not of traded for obj, we should of gone oline in the draft. We had a shakey, but effective online last year, we got rid of one peice, our tackle play has regressed and now our oline isnt performing. Furthemore, we should not of got obj because that is not who baker needed. Bakers team is built from the inside out, oline x2 tall tes, a recieving back, then a legit deep threat speed reciever to open that all up. 

Obj is not a burner, he is nfl fast, but not above that, which baker needs. 

Freddie also is not helping Baker out, this is a Sub set of the Dorsey issue imo, and an ongoing conversation we are in. That said for 2020 we need to build arpund Bakers strengths, weakness, and play style.

obj not a burner ok

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4 minutes ago, mistakey said:

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap/cleveland-browns/

hes doin pretty well at the cap, starts at 50 mil next year and then these cuts will give us more money back:
vernon - 15M
Kirko 7.5M
Carrie 6.4 M
Hubbard 4.9 M
Smith 3.75M
Burnett 3.4 M
Demetrius Harris 2.5M
Adarius Taylor 2.5M
Kendall Lamm 2.5M
Taywan Taylor 1M

for like another 50M

I understand Vernon is overpaid and not what we expected.. But why do people want to cut him? He's not bad and we definitely don't have better options on the roster. 

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Just now, braylon said:

I understand Vernon is overpaid and not what we expected.. But why do people want to cut him? He's not bad and we definitely don't have better options on the roster. 

I guess I can answer my own question and say "not bad" is not good enough for 15mil a year lol.. 

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Just now, braylon said:

I understand Vernon is overpaid and not what we expected.. But why do people want to cut him? He's not bad and we definitely don't have better options on the roster. 

free agents, chad thomas been picking it up, 15m is a lot 

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1 minute ago, mistakey said:

free agents, chad thomas been picking it up, 15m is a lot 

Fair. What about Richardson? I know you didn't mention him, but I see a lot of people saying they would like to cut him after this year? He's stepped up lately, he can be very disruptive.

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Just now, braylon said:

Fair. What about Richardson? I know you didn't mention him, but I see a lot of people saying they would like to cut him after this year? He's stepped up lately, he can be very disruptive.

he could be cut too thats 8.3M

not saying that everyone of those are gonna get cut but its a lot of money to play with for resigns and fas

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