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BrownLeader

BrownLeader 2020 Positional Rankings

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On 12/6/2019 at 11:41 AM, mse326 said:

What are your feelings on Amik Robertson? I think he'll make a great slot, but I don't see him outside at all.

Hadn't watched him much . Great tape though. Slightly larger and he'd probably be the best CB in this class. He still might be. He's got the aggressiveness, athletic ability and ball skills to play in or out imo. Adept playing off or man. Doesn't back down but can bite off more than he can chew against a physical guy. Passive open field tackler that doesn't want any part of it unless the guy doesn't see it coming. Looks like a liability in run support at this point. In what I think is a fairly weak CB class, I'd put him #3 ahead of Gladney.

Edited by BrownLeader

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Yeah, I'm not sure about this list chief:

 

- Daniel Imatorbhebhe Is on the list as a TE for USC and he is a WR for Illinois currently

- This list doesn't have Jaylen Twyman or Davon Hamilton

- Marvin Wilson at 13?

- Cam Akers at 14?

- Shaun Wade and Damon Arnette need to be on this list in some capacity

-Oluwole Betiku should be on this list

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On 12/5/2019 at 2:05 PM, BRANDON26841X said:

No Damon Arnette / Shaun Wade in your CB rankings?

I know Okudah gets all of the love for them (and deservedly so) but in my eyes Arnette has been their best CB all season long coverage wise. I can't think of more than 3 balls that have been completed on him. Good size, very good in run support, sticky coverage, and the dude just plays hard with a ton of confidence. He's also played with a broken hand all season. He's a 2nd rounder all day IMO. 

Keeping with Ohio State... where is Davon Hamilton? He has been a monster at NT all season and I don't think he's making it out of the top 3 rounds. Same thing with Jonah Jackson and Wyatt Davis (redshirt sophomore) at guard. C Josh Myers and those 2 guys make up what might be the best interior OL in the country. 

I guess I've been avoiding OSU. i blame it on Browns stans.

Arnette has been really solid this season but I don't know if I can get his early seasons out of my head yet. Wade has every tool but I'd really like to see him return. I ranked Jackson but I'll hold off on Davis and Myers for now

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On 12/5/2019 at 7:08 PM, Ozzy said:

Marlon Davidson is missing in your 3/4 DE rankings and overall DT rankings.  Kid is probably going to be a 2nd round pick and at times has been as good as his teammate Brown.  Zach Baun and Josh Uche are missing in the 3/4 OLB rankings, both can really get after the QB and are probably high end 2nd round or low end 4th round picks at worst.  And Amik Robertson, Camryn Bynum and Essang Bassey are missing from the CB rankings I feel, Robertson and Bynum for sure can flat out play.

 

Okudah being that high I have a hard time believing that.  Outside of this past season he has just been average at best.  And this year arguably a lot of that success is because of the pass rush he plays with and the constant pressure Young can get on the QB makes playing DB a lot easier.  Even the games Young was out other guys stepped up and they are surprisingly deep on the DL considering all the players they have lost and the LB core is as solid as any team in the nation arguably.  Orr is way to low in the ILB rankings, kid has been a terror as a pass rusher this year and is probably a 2nd round pick if not a 3rd, same with Weaver that kid is legit and could play in a 3/4 OLB position if a team wanted him to, he can hold the point of attack well and is clearly a tackling machine who knows the game and plays with great passion.  

 

Isaiah Simmons you underrated big time, he is a top 5 player I feel.  Is the best LB in the draft and arguably could play safety in the NFL if asked also.  Heck is technically a safety right now on Clemson and is making plays all over the field.  His athletic ability is off the charts and kid can flat our run and has real size and strength.  

 

I would be shocked if AJ Dillion is a 1st round pick, love him as a back but I could see him dropping to the 2nd or 3rd round.  Especially with such a deep RB class coming up.  I would be even more shocked if Chassion was a 1st round pick with his injuries, Brandon Jones who has just been ok as a starter if that.  Ford I love on Pitt but kid is too young and should really return to school, is a little wild at times.  Myles Bryant I like a lot but not sure he is a safety physically, is more a slot corner to me and Surratt could be a big time player next year but not sure he is ready to make the jump to the league after just one good season.  

 

If you have watched all of these players play and ranked them according to what you have seen, good for you because few around actually do that and have a indepth list beyond just a few top guys.

Davidson is interesting. Completely outshined Coe who I really liked last year. I think I'd like to see him shred down and stay on the edge rather than play inside. As is, he's like a 5 prototype. I liked Baun and Uche but I'd say 2-4 round still seems a little high. We'll see how they test.

I really liked Robertson and Bynum, but I'm not in love with any CB in this class yet. Okudah has the tools, pedigree and has flashed but I agree he's not necessarily a shoe in CB #1.

Orr's made splash plays as a blitzer but he's very limited overall. I need to watch Weaver more.

Simmons' upside is through the roof but I also get a Shaq Thompson vibe from him.

Big board guys are not all 1st rounders.

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On 12/6/2019 at 2:57 PM, ClutchDJ said:

How is Myles Bryant THAT high? Especially over the likes of McKinney & Ashtyn?

Haven't dove in on McKinney or Davis yet but Ive really liked most of what I've seen of Bryant. Big time range and physicality.

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4 hours ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

Yeah, I'm not sure about this list chief:

 

- Daniel Imatorbhebhe Is on the list as a TE for USC and he is a WR for Illinois currently

- This list doesn't have Jaylen Twyman or Davon Hamilton

- Marvin Wilson at 13?

- Cam Akers at 14?

- Shaun Wade and Damon Arnette need to be on this list in some capacity

-Oluwole Betiku should be on this list

I think that's his brother at Illinois. Updated those missing Buckeyes.

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3 hours ago, BrownLeader said:

Davidson is interesting. Completely outshined Coe who I really liked last year. I think I'd like to see him shred down and stay on the edge rather than play inside. As is, he's like a 5 prototype. I liked Baun and Uche but I'd say 2-4 round still seems a little high. We'll see how they test.

I really liked Robertson and Bynum, but I'm not in love with any CB in this class yet. Okudah has the tools, pedigree and has flashed but I agree he's not necessarily a shoe in CB #1.

Orr's made splash plays as a blitzer but he's very limited overall. I need to watch Weaver more.

Simmons' upside is through the roof but I also get a Shaq Thompson vibe from him.

Big board guys are not all 1st rounders.

giphy.gif

Shaq Thompson could never do this.  Only similarity is that Shaq Thompson also played safety in college, but length alone makes Simmons a much more interesting safety or linebacker in the NFL.  Simmons is a super star, Shaq Thompson was just an interesting as a potential coverage LB and has kind of disappointed in the NFL I think.  Simmons is more versatile and dangerous as a defender because of his length, something Thompson does not have.  Simmons has top 5 pick in the draft kind of talent, Thompson never had that coming out of Washington.

 

Orr as a blitzing ILB in a 3/4 can change the game, just look at that Wisconsin D once he went out against Ohio State, it was a different group without him there.  Some 3/4 team will be very happy with him I think.  

 

 

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On 12/5/2019 at 2:10 PM, Ozzy said:

FYI from what I have heard Pat Freiermuth is coming back to school and so is Cole Kmet.   I know it is crazy, I had them both the top two TEs as well, Freiermuth is a big surprise he is returning because he would have been the best TE this year no question, but will be potentially the best in 2021.

 

With how he has played this year could make the case JK Dobbins in the best back in the draft.  He has been so complete this year catching the football, running with speed and power and blocking.  Kid has been amazing this year and worst is the 2nd best RB in the draft I feel.  

 

Dobbins is good but he clearly benefitted from a great O-line and a running QB. He didn’t have either of those last year and did not perform very well. I’d put Dobbins at RB4 or 5.

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31 minutes ago, badgers0821 said:

Dobbins is good but he clearly benefitted from a great O-line and a running QB. He didn’t have either of those last year and did not perform very well. I’d put Dobbins at RB4 or 5.

Dobbins has more yards in a three year career at Ohio State than Zek Elliott had and it is by a very wide margin, only thing missing is big game performances at the end of the season and those could come this year but will see.  Already had one in the Big Ten title game, see how he does in the Playoffs.

 

Sure Fields on the team helps but Jonathan Taylor runs behind a great OL especially the previous two seasons, so does Travis Etienne and DeAndre Swift runs behind a awesome OL as well along with Najee Harris especially this season late with everyone healthy.  Only guys without great talent around them on the OL or QB/WR spots are guys like AJ Dillion, Kylin Hill, and KeShawn Vaughn, could include Eno Benjamin and Zach Moss also but both have a athletic QB that helps in the run game also.  But still arguably the RB behind the worst OL of this entire group would be Eno Benjamin especially this season.

Dobbins is an all around back who can do a variety of things and has speed and power, is surprisingly tough and physical as a runner and can break tackles well and take contact well.  Good in pass pro at times and can catch it out of the backfield.  I would take him just on pure size and power over Swift, and between Dobbins and Najee JK has been more consistent over the long hall than Najee but most of that is opportunity based.

 

 

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54 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

Dobbins has more yards in a three year career at Ohio State than Zek Elliott had and it is by a very wide margin, only thing missing is big game performances at the end of the season and those could come this year but will see.  Already had one in the Big Ten title game, see how he does in the Playoffs.

 

Sure Fields on the team helps but Jonathan Taylor runs behind a great OL especially the previous two seasons, so does Travis Etienne and DeAndre Swift runs behind a awesome OL as well along with Najee Harris especially this season late with everyone healthy.  Only guys without great talent around them on the OL or QB/WR spots are guys like AJ Dillion, Kylin Hill, and KeShawn Vaughn, could include Eno Benjamin and Zach Moss also but both have a athletic QB that helps in the run game also.  But still arguably the RB behind the worst OL of this entire group would be Eno Benjamin especially this season.

Dobbins is an all around back who can do a variety of things and has speed and power, is surprisingly tough and physical as a runner and can break tackles well and take contact well.  Good in pass pro at times and can catch it out of the backfield.  I would take him just on pure size and power over Swift, and between Dobbins and Najee JK has been more consistent over the long hall than Najee but most of that is opportunity based.

 

 

I’m not going to get into this great debate but I’ll address the Dobbins stuff. Im not really sure why you are comparing Zeke and Dobbins, talent-wise it’s not even close. The total yards rushing is a fools errand stat. Zeke really only played 2 years and ran the ball for 6.69 YPC while Dobbins played 3 years, ran the ball over 100 times more for just over 6 YPC, that’s a much more telling stat and I look forward to you trying to arguing against it.

It’s also very telling that you think Wisconsin had an elite line this year...at times the were below average.

Finally, take a look at Dobbins last year with just an ok OL and Haskins at QB vs. this year with a great OL and a dual threat QB. If you think having a running QB to run the read option doesn’t help the RB I’m not sure what to tell ya.

But I get it, you are on the Dobbins train, to each their own.

Edited by badgers0821

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4 minutes ago, badgers0821 said:

I’m not going to get into this great debate but I’ll address the Dobbins stuff. Im not really sure why you are comparing Zeke and Dobbins, talent-wise it’s not even close. The total yards rushing is a fools errand stat. Zeke really only played 2 years and ran the ball for 6.69 YPC while Dobbins played 3 years, ran the ball over 100 times more for just over 6 YPC, that’s a much more telling stat and I look forward to you trying to arguing against it.

It’s also very telling that you think Wisconsin had an elite line this year...at times the were below average.

Finally, take a look at Dobbins last year with just an ok OL and Haskins at QB vs. this year with a great OL and a dual threat QB. If you think having a running QB to run the read option doesn’t help the RB I’m not sure what to tell ya.

But I get it, you are on the Dobbins train, to each their own.

You want to just argue or something?  Most of these points you are arguing I did not even mention.  For one any OL with a 1st round pick and another potential 1st rounder and maybe some other NFL caliber players on it I would consider a great OL in terms of college football offensive lines.  You want Arizona State and their offensive line instead?  Ok trade them and see how good you run the ball then. 

And when did I say having a running QB did not help the run game? So that is why Dobbins is successful?  You do realize almost every team that scores points in college football runs a zone read in some fashion and most QBs run with the football especially in college.   I specifically even said Benjamin and Moss are helped because of the running QB they have but Arizona State does not have a great OL and honestly Utah is not that great either based on how they looked against Oregon.  

And I never said Wisconsin had an elite OL, I said great and said 'especially the previous two seasons'.  Sure this year not as much but was not as bad as you say they were, especially in terms of run blocking and pure talent on the OL.

I never said Dobbins was a better back or prospect, just saying he is pretty damn good and on the same level as Zeke physically in a lot of ways.  Zeke and Dobbins are very similar in a lot of ways in terms of their size, ability to break tackles, take contact and pass protect.   Zeke being thicker lower body and more powerful, also Zeke had bigger games against bigger competition but longevity Dobbins has him beat and will see how he does in the Playoffs.  Sure last year Dobbins was not great but he was injured on and off and shared time with Weber.  Oh and with Haskins they passed the ball 533 times, this year with Fields they passed the ball 309 times so less opportunities to run with Haskins, ran the ball 624 times this year and 570 the year before.  But hell Fields and Teague had both over 120 carries this year so technically even this season he did not get as many opportunities as he could have but still played great and really produced at a very high level.  

Whatever, Dobbins is a damn good player and has been for awhile.  If people cannot see that not sure what you are watching.  Is he surrounded by talent?  Yeah sure, a lot of good backs are surrounded with talent outside of the few I mentioned.  And I bet he runs a 4.4 40 time or better.  If you want to just makeup things I did not bring up or even say, clearly you have an agenda

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

And I bet he runs a 4.4 40 time or better. 

I'm not always the greatest at evaluating prospects speed but wow, you've got some lofty times to fairly average speed guys imo. I will say though, looking closer at Dobbins of late, he's got better short area lateral quickness than I've been giving him credit for. I think Doug Martin is my best comp for him right now.

and fwiw..

Najee Harris - bigger Bilal Powell

3 hours ago, Ozzy said:

giphy.gif

Shaq Thompson could never do this.  Only similarity is that Shaq Thompson also played safety in college, but length alone makes Simmons a much more interesting safety or linebacker in the NFL.  Simmons is a super star, Shaq Thompson was just an interesting as a potential coverage LB and has kind of disappointed in the NFL I think.  Simmons is more versatile and dangerous as a defender because of his length, something Thompson does not have.  Simmons has top 5 pick in the draft kind of talent, Thompson never had that coming out of Washington.

 

Orr as a blitzing ILB in a 3/4 can change the game, just look at that Wisconsin D once he went out against Ohio State, it was a different group without him there.  Some 3/4 team will be very happy with him I think.  

 

 

Thompson couldn't range downfield and get a PD?

Tbh, i'm not comparing them specifically as prospects. Thompson vibe just means a guy that has all pro tools and is drafted high but gets a little lost on the field and doesn't have as big an impact as expected. I'm still a fan of Simmons though.

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35 minutes ago, Ozzy said:

You want to just argue or something?  Most of these points you are arguing I did not even mention.  For one any OL with a 1st round pick and another potential 1st rounder and maybe some other NFL caliber players on it I would consider a great OL in terms of college football offensive lines.  You want Arizona State and their offensive line instead?  Ok trade them and see how good you run the ball then. 

And when did I say having a running QB did not help the run game? So that is why Dobbins is successful?  You do realize almost every team that scores points in college football runs a zone read in some fashion and most QBs run with the football especially in college.   I specifically even said Benjamin and Moss are helped because of the running QB they have but Arizona State does not have a great OL and honestly Utah is not that great either based on how they looked against Oregon.  

And I never said Wisconsin had an elite OL, I said great and said 'especially the previous two seasons'.  Sure this year not as much but was not as bad as you say they were, especially in terms of run blocking and pure talent on the OL.

I never said Dobbins was a better back or prospect, just saying he is pretty damn good and on the same level as Zeke physically in a lot of ways.  Zeke and Dobbins are very similar in a lot of ways in terms of their size, ability to break tackles, take contact and pass protect.   Zeke being thicker lower body and more powerful, also Zeke had bigger games against bigger competition but longevity Dobbins has him beat and will see how he does in the Playoffs.  Sure last year Dobbins was not great but he was injured on and off and shared time with Weber.  Oh and with Haskins they passed the ball 533 times, this year with Fields they passed the ball 309 times so less opportunities to run with Haskins, ran the ball 624 times this year and 570 the year before.  But hell Fields and Teague had both over 120 carries this year so technically even this season he did not get as many opportunities as he could have but still played great and really produced at a very high level.  

Whatever, Dobbins is a damn good player and has been for awhile.  If people cannot see that not sure what you are watching.  Is he surrounded by talent?  Yeah sure, a lot of good backs are surrounded with talent outside of the few I mentioned.  And I bet he runs a 4.4 40 time or better.  If you want to just makeup things I did not bring up or even say, clearly you have an agenda

 

 

I literally just stated facts but ok. And you 100% were arguing that Dobbins is great because he had more yards than Zeke in college...I was pointing out that the comment you made below is not a good argument.

Dobbins has more yards in a three year career at Ohio State than Zek Elliott had and it is by a very wide margin,” (it was by about 300 yards on over 100 more carries). Zeke was a much more efficient runner. I know you can’t admit when your wrong and that’s fine but don’t get all butt hurt when you are.

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