(Polls) Should We Trade OBJ?

[brownie man]

6 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

hahahah....

"Not a top 10 receiver anymore"

Classic....epic post...

Let me Name some guys off the top of my head
 

players I’d take right now over Odell

Hopkins

Adams

Mike Thomas

Mike Evans 
Chris Godwin
Tyreek Hill

Healthy Thielin 

Julio
Allen Robinson- maybe 

Keenan Allen
Amari Cooper

So that’s 111

guys on the rise

DJ Moore

DJ Chark

Courtland Sutton

Diggs

Kenny Golladay

going forward I’m taking Moore Sutton and Golladay over odell

I mean Cole freaking Beasley is having a better year than Odell that’s ridiculous 

[MarkPrice25]

33 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

hahah... utter madness..

might as well trade OBJ for some blue chews, some cool ranch doritos, and a stiff kick down yonder..

Howard was rated by PFF 89.1 in Monken's offense last year. That's not a huge drop off from OBJ last year at 90.0. He would also help in the run game as a blocker. He's having a bad year but acting like Howard is the same as a bag of dorritos and a nut kick is just as reactionary as saying OBJ sucks.

Might not be a great destination for him anyway as they have Evans and Godwin but it was just a thought anyway.

OBJ is a great player but if he doesn't want to be here he's better as a trade asset.

What about OBJ for Alshon Jeffrey and Philly's 1st? Dropping in talent at WR but gaining a late 1st round pick, and Jeffrey is still a pretty solid player. Could also help facilitate a trade up for a dominant player earlier in the draft.

[brownie man]

3 minutes ago, MarkPrice25 said:

Howard was rated by PFF 89.1 in Monken's offense last year. That's not a huge drop off from OBJ last year at 90.0. He would also help in the run game as a blocker. He's having a bad year but acting like Howard is the same as a bag of dorritos and a nut kick is just as reactionary as saying OBJ sucks.

Might not be a great destination for him anyway as they have Evans and Godwin but it was just a thought anyway.

OBJ is a great player but if he doesn't want to be here he's better as a trade asset.

What about OBJ for Alshon Jeffrey and Philly's 1st? Dropping in talent at WR but gaining a late 1st round pick, and Jeffrey is still a pretty solid player. Could also help facilitate a trade up for a dominant player earlier in the draft.

I’d love that trade maybe get Avery back too 😂 

[Mind Character]

8 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

If he’s honestly openly campaigning for teams to “come get him” I’d move him and not think twice.

You can’t complain about a lack of a culture building HC while dismissing that behavior.

14 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

We need to cut the cancers out of this team. If OBJ isn't going to play hard for this team, he needs to go. I haven't seen anything to suggest he doesn't play hard, but if that's what's going on behind closed doors, we need to get him out of here.

Quote

This to me is a true test of Freddie and Dorsey's leadership. In a successful tenure in the NFL, many star players will ask to be traded or not franchised or whatever. It's up to the men in the room to sit down man to man and plot a positive way forward.

If OBJ wants to be traded it's because like many of us, he doesn't believe in Freddie Kitchens as a play-caller or his ability to be used and to lesser extent has lost faith in Baker as a competent QB. It's odd that we might be frustrated or question things on Sunday but we think the players don't question the competence of coaches or other players as well. It's up to Freddie and Dorsey to convince the elite talent of a way forward and for that elite talent to give everything to try to make things work.

Much like other superstar athlete's though there's a whole industry that profits off of discussing their every sensationalized move.

The whole year the sports media sensational-headline-industrial complex has been pining for OBJ to give them something to run with and substantiate their early season "he's going to become a problem," "OBJ never wanted to be in cleveland," "the Browns should trade OBJ" pieces.

All the while OBJ's been professional who's bottled up his frustrations in the service of team and maturity. Voicing frustrations in ways high-level athletes do but doing so in a non-volatile way.

Everyone wants OBJ to be a locker room drain so bad; everyone wants him to loaf and give up on the field so bad, but OBJ above anything else is a competitor, addicted to winning, and gives it his all on the field. He doesn't mail it in. 

OBJ's best friend in life is here in Cleveland. 

LGB, you're taking Glazer's hear say as a true representation of facts on the ground. It's a report. Glazer's good but as much as he's hyped he has a history of being wrong as well. Additionally, Glazer can be accurately be reporting hear-say but also have been told things that don't accurately reflect what really has transpired with Odell.

Jay Glazer's report that "OBJ on the field after games has told players/coaches to come get him" could easily be misinformed or created by people that sense OBJs frustration and/or are looking to create the narrative around OBJ that opens up the trade market. I seriously doubt Odell having lived under a microscope of super stardom would openly tell coaches and players on the field such things in ear shot of cameras and other things.

But let's say he does want to be traded and comes out in public requesting to do so like Stefon Diggs. The Vikings repaired their relationship with Diggs and got on the same page and have thrived. 

We should exhaust all possibilities before entertaining an OBJ trade.

 

 

[sdrawkcab321]

Landry needs to step up as a leader here and mediate this 

[Mind Character]

14 minutes ago, brownie man said:

Let me Name some guys off the top of my head
 

players I’d take right now over Odell

Hopkins

Adams

Mike Thomas

Mike Evans 
Chris Godwin
Tyreek Hill

Healthy Thielin 

Julio
Allen Robinson- maybe 

Keenan Allen
Amari Cooper

So that’s 111

guys on the rise

DJ Moore

DJ Chark

Courtland Sutton

Diggs

Kenny Golladay

going forward I’m taking Moore Sutton and Golladay over odell

I mean Cole freaking Beasley is having a better year than Odell that’s ridiculous 

DJ Chark??!! Courtland Sutton!!?? Keenan Allen.. Allen robinson???

In no way shape or form, are half of those guys on that list better than Odell. 

Have you actually watched Odell play extensively before this year?

He's been hobbled all year. I called and talked about him having a core injury in the Jets game while everyone ignored it. My b.i.l. who was in the draft room when Odell was selected knew just like me and a couple of my other perceptive friends and family that Odell was hobbled based off how his movements were labored. 

Last year he came off a torn quad and groin issue. 

You can't say "Healthy Theilen" but disregard "Healthy Odell"

A Healthy Odell is only being competed with by Deandre Hopkins, Michael Thomas, Mike Evans, Tyreek Hill, and Julio Jones... that's basically it.

Even injured if he got more quality opportunities it would be a different story this year..

[BleedTheClock]

15 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

We should exhaust all possibilities before entertaining an OBJ trade.

I agree fully.

...but if the dude is going to be a problem for us for the foreseeable future, we need to cut ties now. We need guys in here that want to win with the Browns. Not guys that are stat hunting. We need to be a run-first team anyways. Force-feeding the football to our WR's is NOT the recipe for success.

[BleedTheClock]

57 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

Yeah I don’t know if anyone want to trade ObJ just because, but if he doesn’t want to be here it’s prolly the right move.  

If he’s honestly openly campaigning for teams to “come get him” I’d move him and not think twice.

You can’t complain about a lack of a culture building HC while dismissing that behavior.

Exactly. And it's not like the Josh Gordon situation where we'd be getting peanuts for his talents. He'd net us significant capital in a trade right now.

[Mind Character]

21 minutes ago, MarkPrice25 said:

Howard was rated by PFF 89.1 in Monken's offense last year. That's not a huge drop off from OBJ last year at 90.0. He would also help in the run game as a blocker. He's having a bad year but acting like Howard is the same as a bag of dorritos and a nut kick is just as reactionary as saying OBJ sucks.

Might not be a great destination for him anyway as they have Evans and Godwin but it was just a thought anyway.

OBJ is a great player but if he doesn't want to be here he's better as a trade asset.

What about OBJ for Alshon Jeffrey and Philly's 1st? Dropping in talent at WR but gaining a late 1st round pick, and Jeffrey is still a pretty solid player. Could also help facilitate a trade up for a dominant player earlier in the draft.

OJ Howard has been a bottom 2 starting TE by all metrics especially so as a run blocker's in the league this year; almost as bad in the passing game.

All this is happening while he's healthy and in a Bruce Arians scheme. Our offense is a Bruce Arians scheme variant.

Howard's rookie year he was the worst starting TE by all major analytics metrics; this year he's the bottom 2; and last year his higher grade was driven by a 5 out of 8 games started before he went down with a season ending injury. PFF has a way to see how much of their grade has out-sized influence by a particular game or set of games and they made the point last year with their supplemental that Howard's PFF grade was driven by 5 out of 8 games started with his biggest consistent YAC gainers coming from screen plays. That was the caveat to the high grade given by Steve Palazzalo himself. 

You don't trade a hobbled generational WR for a TE with 2 seasons (rookie and current) as the worst starting TE in the league run blocking and pass receiving wise with a 5 out of 8 game run of success the previous year before season ending injury.

If you trade an OBJ, you do so for another impact talent at an impact position. Not a TE like OJ Howard with the worst PFF grade his rookie year and bottom of the starting TEs in the league grade this year. That's a 3 year sample size with 2 of the 3 being at the bottom and the only good one being a 5 game run. What I said wasn't reactionary My comment wasn't reactionary at all.

OBJ for OJ Howard would be madness.

[Mind Character]

8 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

I agree fully.

...but if the dude is going to be a problem for us for the foreseeable future, we need to cut ties now. We need guys in here that want to win with the Browns. Not guys that are stat hunting. We need to be a run-first team anyways. Force-feeding the football to our WR's is NOT the recipe for success.

Yeah, I agree that you don't want to keep a player that is going to be a problem and that we need to base our attack off the run-game.

However, I think it's a misnomer that Odell is a stat hunter or that he cares about stats more than anything. I think ultimately Odell is like most elite WRs this game has seen or any other elite talent and that is they want to feel maximized and want to feel like their ability is being actualized.

 Our passing game and our overall offense is a mess right now. We all know that. We all see that. We all have a feeling its potential is not being actualized. 

If we feel that from the outside, so do the players but more so. It's frustrating for us; frustrating for them more so.

If we do trade him, it can't be trading him for trading sake. Whatever pick and/or players we get have to be impact players at impact position (Left/Right Tackle, Pass Rusher, CB) with cost control.

That's all im saying.

[LETSGOBROWNIES]

 

 

37 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

LGB, you're taking Glazer's hear say as a true representation of facts on the ground. It's a report. Glazer's good but as much as he's hyped he has a history of being wrong as well. Additionally, Glazer can be accurately be reporting hear-say but also have been told things that don't accurately reflect what really has transpired with Odell.

Jay Glazer's report that "OBJ on the field after games has told players/coaches to come get him" could easily be misinformed or created by people that sense OBJs frustration and/or are looking to create the narrative around OBJ that opens up the trade market. I seriously doubt Odell having lived under a microscope of super stardom would openly tell coaches and players on the field such things in ear shot of cameras and other things.

But let's say he does want to be traded and comes out in public requesting to do so like Stefon Diggs. The Vikings repaired their relationship with Diggs and got on the same page and have thrived. 

We should exhaust all possibilities before entertaining an OBJ trade.

 

 

I’m doing no such thing as I have no clue what has or hasn’t been said.

Im just saying *if* that’s where he’s at and what he’s doing, then move him.

Id like to think I’m just smart enough to realize that a “report” from a talking head isn’t a verifiable fact.

[MarkPrice25]

15 minutes ago, Mind Character said:

OJ Howard has been a bottom 2 starting TE by all metrics especially so as a run blocker's in the league this year; almost as bad in the passing game.

All this is happening while he's healthy and in a Bruce Arians scheme. Our offense is a Bruce Arians scheme variant.

Howard's rookie year he was the worst starting TE by all major analytics metrics; this year he's the bottom 2; and last year his higher grade was driven by a 5 out of 8 games started before he went down with a season ending injury. PFF has a way to see how much of their grade has out-sized influence by a particular game or set of games and they made the point last year with their supplemental that Howard's PFF grade was driven by 5 out of 8 games started with his biggest consistent YAC gainers coming from screen plays. That was the caveat to the high grade given by Steve Palazzalo himself. 

You don't trade a hobbled generational WR for a TE with 2 seasons (rookie and current) as the worst starting TE in the league run blocking and pass receiving wise with a 5 out of 8 game run of success the previous year before season ending injury.

If you trade an OBJ, you do so for another impact talent at an impact position. Not a TE like OJ Howard with the worst PFF grade his rookie year and bottom of the starting TEs in the league grade this year. That's a 3 year sample size with 2 of the 3 being at the bottom and the only good one being a 5 game run. What I said wasn't reactionary My comment wasn't reactionary at all.

OBJ for OJ Howard would be madness.

Like I said, it was just a thought *shrug* I admit I'm not caught up with every goings on with every player in the league. I remembered him being highly thought of. My bad. The Bucs have stud WRs anyway I brought up OBJ for Alshon Jeffrey and Philly's 1st. What would you think of that? I admit I kinda like the sound of it.

Now as I said in another thread I don't want to trade him but if he's really not happy with where he's at I'd rather move him now then have him become a straight up malcontent in the locker room.

[BleedTheClock]

26 minutes ago, MarkPrice25 said:

Now as I said in another thread I don't want to trade him but if he's really not happy with where he's at I'd rather move him now then have him become a straight up malcontent in the locker room.

This is where everyone is I'm pretty sure. Nobody wants to ship him off without reason...it's only if he is legitimately a distraction and a locker room cancer. @Mind Character seems to be thinking we just want rid of him because he's a headache. If he's actually lobbying to "escape" our team, we need to get rid of him.

[Mind Character]

1 hour ago, MarkPrice25 said:

Like I said, it was just a thought *shrug* I admit I'm not caught up with every goings on with every player in the league. I remembered him being highly thought of. My bad. The Bucs have stud WRs anyway I brought up OBJ for Alshon Jeffrey and Philly's 1st. What would you think of that? I admit I kinda like the sound of it.

Now as I said in another thread I don't want to trade him but if he's really not happy with where he's at I'd rather move him now then have him become a straight up malcontent in the locker room.

Mark man.. don't take the fun out of internet banter discussion by saying stuff like "my bad" man.. it's no worries and will always be all good ...

Post an insulting, satirical, or randomly entertaining gif...a picture of a super model followed by a blurred middle finger... or crap on my post or something... 

I agree in that if he's going to be a malcontent it would be better to seek a trade in the offseason as long as we get impact player value in return.

[Mind Character]

38 minutes ago, BleedTheClock said:

This is where everyone is I'm pretty sure. Nobody wants to ship him off without reason...it's only if he is legitimately a distraction and a locker room cancer. @Mind Character seems to be thinking we just want rid of him because he's a headache. If he's actually lobbying to "escape" our team, we need to get rid of him.

I'm just on guard man.

It's just with this organization .. the momentum on things accelerates at a brake neck speed and I'm afraid that we'll create a self-fullfilling prophecy with fans and media making it that toxic environment that makes it easier for player to say "F-it get me out of this toxic place."

Not accusing you or anyone on here, but in general our fans turn on players so quick especially the real or perceived "injured, underperforming type" fans say terrible things to those players and the media heightens the toxic environment with their sh*t negativity questions and their sh*t articles.

Before you know it, the bolder of negativity is moving down the hill and the negativity entity that is cleveland sports media-fandom will help manifest bad outcomes.

I saw people posting places about how Odell quit against Cincy by leaving the field after that vertical route because Tiki Barber said he sat on the bench in frustration after that route. Those takes disregard what anyone that plays football knows that when a player has a hamstring or core muscle injury and they run a hard deep vertical they come out the next play instead of running back to down field to get the next play off on time and put more strain. That's basic high school football injury management.

I've seen it with cleveland fandom since I can remember football. We love to turn on players with injuries that don't perform at a high level for a wide variety of reasons even when they are putting it all out there. We're 1 Odell drop and more rumors away from people turning on him. Odell like Baker is tuned into the media environment and what people say about him. I just hope we can keep our environment around this situation s good as it can be.

Situations like this would be perfect for a savvy veteran like Mike Tomlin, John Harbaugh, or Sean Payton. They'd make sure nothing becomes of this. No one on the outside or in the football believes in this offense right now. It's up to Freddie to get buy-in from Odell and the rest of the players and sustain belief for better days ahead.