Heinz D. Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 To elaborate on that...I think most would peg Love or Hurts as more of a sure thing than Eason... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 12 hours ago, Heinz D. said: Yeah, I kinda thought your quip upfront there was a sort of beside the point comment. Something off-hand. What you're really getting at is something fairly different than what you're, initially, coming off as saying. And that's fine. I still think Eason has a ton of potential, in spite of his bad stretch this year. Considering your take on things, though, do you think adding Eason is enough? I mean, all things considered, you're advocating for a sure-fire alternative, aren't you? Does that mean that maybe you think the Bears should trade UP for a QB? 12 hours ago, Heinz D. said: To elaborate on that...I think most would peg Love or Hurts as more of a sure thing than Eason... Good questions, I had to really think a bit to answer. I'm not in love with any of the QBs that will likely be available when the Bears go on the clock. Really outside of Tua and Burrow I don't know if I would want to trade up. I'd feel way more secure with them. I'm not sure Eason would be THE option, but I feel like he has a ton of talent. Then in the years he potentially starts he is costing the team next to nothing so talent can be retained elsewhere, more along the lines of a return on investment with the QB position. If he is the guy great, if not then move on. I don't want to have a situation where the QB and the contract he carries is a really bad investment. That's the hardest position in the game to compensate a bad deal for. Now Tru has a lot of talent too, but I'm not sure it is going to show up enough for him to be worth the massive deal he would get if/when he gets re-signed. He and Nagy have not clicked like we hoped. I'm not confident they ever will. I'm rooting for him and If he turns the corner and thrives then I'll be ecstatic to eat my words, and welcome anyone to throw this back at me when he does. My big reason for not wanting to trade up for a QB is mainly because I am not confident that he is the guy who is going to mold the quarterback. So if we trade up and we bust on a pick the next head coach would be in a bad spot. So let's say the offense tanks next year and Nagy is let go. If we go after an offensive-minded coach I want him to be able to pick his guy. I prefer him to have a young talent on the roster like Eason to compete with his guy and keep that position super cheap. Right now with Nagy I just don't know if he is going to be the person that Hurts could do well with. Hurts will have to use his legs and I don't think there's a way he turns into a pocket passer. Maybe it was true who decided to be less I'm a runner or maybe it was by design, I don't know. But I don't want to see Hurts try to be a pocket passer or that is going to be a rough year or two imo. Love just confuses me, I seen great throws I've seen embarrassingly bad decisions, he just is an enigma. I thought he was going to ball out this year. I haven't watched a ton of this film by any means but I see a lot of good Jay bad Jay going on. He should transfer to a better school to take away the lack of talent (and maybe poor coaching?)he has around him thats holding him back and hopefully that can reset his stock, and fix some issues with his mechanics with a different coach. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBHalas Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Sugashane said: Good questions, I had to really think a bit to answer. I'm not in love with any of the QBs that will likely be available when the Bears go on the clock. Really outside of Tua and Burrow I don't know if I would want to trade up. I'd feel way more secure with them. I'm not sure Eason would be THE option, but I feel like he has a ton of talent. Then in the years he potentially starts he is costing the team next to nothing so talent can be retained elsewhere, more along the lines of a return on investment with the QB position. If he is the guy great, if not then move on. I don't want to have a situation where the QB and the contract he carries is a really bad investment. That's the hardest position in the game to compensate a bad deal for. Now Tru has a lot of talent too, but I'm not sure it is going to show up enough for him to be worth the massive deal he would get if/when he gets re-signed. He and Nagy have not clicked like we hoped. I'm not confident they ever will. I'm rooting for him and If he turns the corner and thrives then I'll be ecstatic to eat my words, and welcome anyone to throw this back at me when he does. My big reason for not wanting to trade up for a QB is mainly because I am not confident that he is the guy who is going to mold the quarterback. So if we trade up and we bust on a pick the next head coach would be in a bad spot. So let's say the offense tanks next year and Nagy is let go. If we go after an offensive-minded coach I want him to be able to pick his guy. I prefer him to have a young talent on the roster like Eason to compete with his guy and keep that position super cheap. Right now with Nagy I just don't know if he is going to be the person that Hurts could do well with. Hurts will have to use his legs and I don't think there's a way he turns into a pocket passer. Maybe it was true who decided to be less I'm a runner or maybe it was by design, I don't know. But I don't want to see Hurts try to be a pocket passer or that is going to be a rough year or two imo. Love just confuses me, I seen great throws I've seen embarrassingly bad decisions, he just is an enigma. I thought he was going to ball out this year. I haven't watched a ton of this film by any means but I see a lot of good Jay bad Jay going on. He should transfer to a better school to take away the lack of talent (and maybe poor coaching?)he has around him thats holding him back and hopefully that can reset his stock, and fix some issues with his mechanics with a different coach. Love already declared for the draft. One QB I am intrigued with is James Morgan out of FIU. He might be one of those late round QBs that could develop into someone worth having around. Just started looking at a couple of videos about him and it looks like his skill set is what Nagy generally is looking for in a quarterback. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Sugashane said: Good questions, I had to really think a bit to answer. I'm not in love with any of the QBs that will likely be available when the Bears go on the clock. Really outside of Tua and Burrow I don't know if I would want to trade up. I'd feel way more secure with them. I'm not sure Eason would be THE option, but I feel like he has a ton of talent. Then in the years he potentially starts he is costing the team next to nothing so talent can be retained elsewhere, more along the lines of a return on investment with the QB position. If he is the guy great, if not then move on. I don't want to have a situation where the QB and the contract he carries is a really bad investment. That's the hardest position in the game to compensate a bad deal for. Now Tru has a lot of talent too, but I'm not sure it is going to show up enough for him to be worth the massive deal he would get if/when he gets re-signed. He and Nagy have not clicked like we hoped. I'm not confident they ever will. I'm rooting for him and If he turns the corner and thrives then I'll be ecstatic to eat my words, and welcome anyone to throw this back at me when he does. My big reason for not wanting to trade up for a QB is mainly because I am not confident that he is the guy who is going to mold the quarterback. So if we trade up and we bust on a pick the next head coach would be in a bad spot. So let's say the offense tanks next year and Nagy is let go. If we go after an offensive-minded coach I want him to be able to pick his guy. I prefer him to have a young talent on the roster like Eason to compete with his guy and keep that position super cheap. Right now with Nagy I just don't know if he is going to be the person that Hurts could do well with. Hurts will have to use his legs and I don't think there's a way he turns into a pocket passer. Maybe it was true who decided to be less I'm a runner or maybe it was by design, I don't know. But I don't want to see Hurts try to be a pocket passer or that is going to be a rough year or two imo. Love just confuses me, I seen great throws I've seen embarrassingly bad decisions, he just is an enigma. I thought he was going to ball out this year. I haven't watched a ton of this film by any means but I see a lot of good Jay bad Jay going on. He should transfer to a better school to take away the lack of talent (and maybe poor coaching?)he has around him thats holding him back and hopefully that can reset his stock, and fix some issues with his mechanics with a different coach. This, this, a thousand times this... ANY of the QBs that the Bears could conceivably get in 2020 are projects/covered in red flags/dicey. People keep referring to Nagy as a "QB guru" and I don't think that's accurate. I think it's more correct to say he is an offensive innovator (sometimes at least) as he really hasn't shown he can develop a QB. Who knows what he did for Mahomes, and while we can't say how much blame lands where, he really hasn't developed or schemed around Trubisky. Take someone like Eason: will he be able to settle his footwork and get him to develop touch and read defenses? Has he done ANY of that for Trubes? How about Hurts? Is he going to ask HIM to be a pocket passer? That would be square pegging the hell out of the guy. How about Fromm? Well, I don't like it but I think Fromm would work in his offense (just not very far down the field!) Just trade a fifth for Rosen too. Best case scenario is and always has been that 10 gets it this winter and can be built around (or rallied around if you prefer). They should absolutely get a veteran, but mostly to replace Chase who is limited as a cheap cell phone plan and done NOTHING for Mitch from the bench. And they absolutely should draft someone, although I like that in the 4th or later, with eye on a high risk home run pick that could maybe have something but more likely just develop into your backup to replace that veteran. If all goes to **** in 2020, let the next coach and GM pick in 2021. Unless Burrow, Tua, Herbert or Andrew Luck somehow fall to the Bears picks in the 2nd, in which case I think it's time for Pace and Nagy to have a big talk. Edited December 11, 2019 by RunningVaccs Forgot to include gratuitous Rosen mention 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted December 11, 2019 Share Posted December 11, 2019 7 hours ago, Sugashane said: Really outside of Tua and Burrow I don't know if I would want to trade up. I'd feel way more secure with them. I'm not sure Eason would be THE option, but I feel like he has a ton of talent. Then in the years he potentially starts he is costing the team next to nothing so talent can be retained elsewhere, more along the lines of a return on investment with the QB position. If he is the guy great, if not then move on. I don't want to have a situation where the QB and the contract he carries is a really bad investment. That's the hardest position in the game to compensate a bad deal for. You left out Herbert, who could end up being the best of the big three. I still do like Eason in spite of his stumbles this year. I think a lot of them are easily explainable. 8 hours ago, Sugashane said: My big reason for not wanting to trade up for a QB is mainly because I am not confident that he is the guy who is going to mold the quarterback. So if we trade up and we bust on a pick the next head coach would be in a bad spot. So let's say the offense tanks next year and Nagy is let go. If we go after an offensive-minded coach I want him to be able to pick his guy. I prefer him to have a young talent on the roster like Eason to compete with his guy and keep that position super cheap. Well, the pick isn't really a bust if Nagy is the one who sucks. The next staff would certainly be better off with a potential young starter in place. You've got to remember we've got playoff-caliber talent. Even though they're not all playing like it at the moment. 7 hours ago, GBHalas said: One QB I am intrigued with is James Morgan out of FIU. He might be one of those late round QBs that could develop into someone worth having around. Just started looking at a couple of videos about him and it looks like his skill set is what Nagy generally is looking for in a quarterback. Was clueless on James Morgan. I will dig for video now. Thanks! 7 hours ago, RunningVaccs said: ANY of the QBs that the Bears could conceivably get in 2020 are projects/covered in red flags/dicey. People keep referring to Nagy as a "QB guru" and I don't think that's accurate. I think it's more correct to say he is an offensive innovator (sometimes at least) as he really hasn't shown he can develop a QB. Who knows what he did for Mahomes, and while we can't say how much blame lands where, he really hasn't developed or schemed around Trubisky. I'm thinking the upcoming QB group is way better than you do, apparently. I'm not going to sing Nagy's praises, as I think that pretty much all of the messes this season have been his fault. Those first couple games were just horrible, pathetic coaching. And the field goal "decision" later on was all-time moronic. But...Trubisky played much better last year than he did under Fox. Let's keep things in perspective. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted December 12, 2019 Author Share Posted December 12, 2019 55 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: You left out Herbert, who could end up being the best of the big three. I still do like Eason in spite of his stumbles this year. I think a lot of them are easily explainable. Well, the pick isn't really a bust if Nagy is the one who sucks. The next staff would certainly be better off with a potential young starter in place. You've got to remember we've got playoff-caliber talent. Even though they're not all playing like it at the moment. Was clueless on James Morgan. I will dig for video now. Thanks! I'm thinking the upcoming QB group is way better than you do, apparently. I'm not going to sing Nagy's praises, as I think that pretty much all of the messes this season have been his fault. Those first couple games were just horrible, pathetic coaching. And the field goal "decision" later on was all-time moronic. But...Trubisky played much better last year than he did under Fox. Let's keep things in perspective. I did somehow forget about Herbert. I've ruled out those three as realistic options. Really if we had someone who had a track record of developing QBs in line is be more comfortable talking a QB high, and Tru would be further along. That's fair, I've head a lot of criticisms of Nagy as well dating back to last year. The overall talent is why I want to load up talent around the QB while they're cheap. Be it around Tru or anyone else. To be honest if this team was around Tru I think we would be looking at the division title. Eason may be overkill for a lit if people's taste but Tru has been having injuries so this is a major upgrade over a back up like Daniel. You could pick a CB earlier and get somebody to groom as a system back up later too. For mid and late round guys in addition to Morgan, I like Gordon as a 5th or 6th, Jamie Newman in the 4th. Might want to watch a few clips of them. Gordon's feet may make you want to punch the screen, be warned. Lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted December 12, 2019 Author Share Posted December 12, 2019 9 hours ago, Sugashane said: You want to sign Richie Incognito? 9 hours ago, RunningVaccs said: I'd sign him so hard... Wow, weird jump man.. Lol. You're point about Luck is something that if like to point out. As a GM if contact Luck and if he was willing to come out of retirement and play for Chicago I'd make the Mack trade look like child's play with IND for his rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 23 minutes ago, Sugashane said: You're point about Luck is something that if like to point out. As a GM if contact Luck and if he was willing to come out of retirement and play for Chicago I'd make the Mack trade look like child's play with IND for his rights. If Luck changes his mind about retirement...you really have to wonder what sort of direction all that would go in. A team that wanted Luck could simply refuse to pay some ridiculous price thrown out by the Colts. The Colts would risk looking utterly classless if they threw out a ridiculous price in the first place. It would (or could) be a weird scenario. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted December 12, 2019 Author Share Posted December 12, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Heinz D. said: If Luck changes his mind about retirement...you really have to wonder what sort of direction all that would go in. A team that wanted Luck could simply refuse to pay some ridiculous price thrown out by the Colts. The Colts would risk looking utterly classless if they threw out a ridiculous price in the first place. It would (or could) be a weird scenario. Yep. It's the QB version if the Sanders and Calvin Johnson ordeals in Detroit. It's lose lose for them if he would want to come out. It would be best to simply trade him out of the conference and reality playing him once every 4 years or whatever, and taking the kings ransom he warrants. Edited December 12, 2019 by Sugashane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 15 hours ago, Heinz D. said: I'm thinking the upcoming QB group is way better than you do, apparently. I'm not going to sing Nagy's praises, as I think that pretty much all of the messes this season have been his fault. Those first couple games were just horrible, pathetic coaching. And the field goal "decision" later on was all-time moronic. But...Trubisky played much better last year than he did under Fox. Let's keep things in perspective. I think some of the guys that are considered early first rounders have a good chance of success. I'm more skeptical of the crowd that might be within reach of the Bears in rd 2; think Hurts, Fromm, Eason, Love. They to me are risky, and not just because of their own talent: think about how it would affect team dynamics, or whether Nagy can develop them, and you're using a premium-ish pick that could be used on an OT, TE or OLB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heinz D. Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 10 hours ago, RunningVaccs said: I think some of the guys that are considered early first rounders have a good chance of success. I'm more skeptical of the crowd that might be within reach of the Bears in rd 2; think Hurts, Fromm, Eason, Love. They to me are risky, and not just because of their own talent: think about how it would affect team dynamics, or whether Nagy can develop them, and you're using a premium-ish pick that could be used on an OT, TE or OLB Hurts and Fromm don't do a whole helluva lot for me...but I'm not going to deny they are decent (at worst) prospects. Much more excited about Love and Eason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 One thing about John DeFillippo is that his offense (at least when he was in Minnesota) had a TON of 7-step drops. Kirk Cousins had trouble running that offense and he has more experience than Trubisky does in the league. I could be wrong on this, but Mitch seems like the kind of guy who would do better with a less complex offense that has more quick passes and Flip likes to do. Just an observation based on his time in Minnesota. Another thing I liked about this mock is that you guys would be cutting Cordarrelle "Flash" Patterson. If that happens, I will be praying that the Vikings pick him up again to use on special teams. He might be getting to be a little up there in age to be as dominant returning kicks as he used to be, but I'd love to give him a chance. He was also a superb gunner on the kicking team toward the end of his time here. I'd love to get him back. Otherwise, this looks like a pretty nice mock offseason. Good job! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 (edited) 11 hours ago, Uncle Buck said: One thing about John DeFillippo is that his offense (at least when he was in Minnesota) had a TON of 7-step drops. Kirk Cousins had trouble running that offense and he has more experience than Trubisky does in the league. I could be wrong on this, but Mitch seems like the kind of guy who would do better with a less complex offense that has more quick passes and Flip likes to do. Just an observation based on his time in Minnesota. Another thing I liked about this mock is that you guys would be cutting Cordarrelle "Flash" Patterson. If that happens, I will be praying that the Vikings pick him up again to use on special teams. He might be getting to be a little up there in age to be as dominant returning kicks as he used to be, but I'd love to give him a chance. He was also a superb gunner on the kicking team toward the end of his time here. I'd love to get him back. Otherwise, this looks like a pretty nice mock offseason. Good job! Thanks man! I see what you were talking about with John but that's not a concern for me here because Nagy is not going to give up play-calling duties. So really he is just here for quarterback development, he's an overpaid quarterback coach. Having him develop Tru to see if he can turn the corner and become the franchise quarterback the Bears hoped and developing their investment in Eason would be a massive win to me. Ask for Patterson that wasn't a move I made lightly. I actually really like him would like to see him rotate and more often on offense to try and create mismatches, and outside of Cohen he's the only person who seems to be able to make people miss in the open field as a receiver. If I could I would actually give him a two-year extension and then make his cap hit more reasonable while up in the guarantees. I wouldn't be shy about doing 3 million a year and having all of it guaranteed for the next three years. He isn't worth five or six million to me but he is definitely worth $3 mil for his ability on special teams and to back up two positions. Edited December 13, 2019 by Sugashane 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAR FACE DOWN ARROW Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 On 12/11/2019 at 6:35 PM, Sugashane said: For mid and late round guys in addition to Morgan, I like Gordon as a 5th or 6th, Jamie Newman in the 4th. Might want to watch a few clips of them. Gordon's feet may make you want to punch the screen, be warned. Lol. Gordon looks better than expected generally, however your note on his lower body and mechanics seems right. Kind of drunken windmill look to him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugashane Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, RunningVaccs said: Gordon looks better than expected generally, however your note on his lower body and mechanics seems right. Kind of drunken windmill look to him. Apparently the drunk is a sad one. I've seen Eeyore show more life than his feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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