New England Patriots Spygate 2.0?

[MookieMonstah]

2 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Saints claimed they looked at college film of Moore playing QB where the hand signals he used as a QB matched his coaching signals. Because Moore is an idiot and the entire Cowboy coaching staff needs to be wiped clean. 

And the Pats recorded was not legal. 

The whole spygate thing was literally a dude recording from the wrong area. It was a semantics thing that got blown up.

Its to funny that people think the Pats needed to illegally record the 1-11 Bengals sideline. Keep those tin foil hats warm boys!!!

[Broncofan]

TL: DR version:

-Pats fans:   Everyone does it, it's the Bengals, they asked for permission, team film is available from each game, those guys aren't even on the org, ppl weren't aware this was a rules infraction.

-Non-Pats fans:  Team asked the Browns, then filmed the Bengals; the league film everyone gets doesn't show hand signals, they always know every rule but not this one?  Plus - how does anyone but Pats fans give NE the benefit of the doubt here?

The Pats admitted responsibility for a broken rule.  The argument that they unknowingly did this rings most hollow - these guys know the rules obscure enough on how to maneuver pick compensation  to get extra picks and how to not have to declare eligible receivers in-game to baffle the other DC (BAL playoff game), and they've been taken to task on recording other teams - and they unknowingly broke this one?   Come on.

I think the punishment should fit the crime - if it was anyone but the Pats, this would be a 3rd/4th round pick forfeited, and a 500K fine.   Given the Pats have committed an offence in this exact area before, I'd say a 1st and a 5M fine.   But no BB suspension - unless there's a more concrete trail.   A suspension comes when you can show a direct line - like with the ATL crowd noise move, or the CLE GM texting to the coach in-game.     No trail, no suspension.   But as an org, to have done this, they can't get off lightly - intentional or not.  So the high pick capital and big fine to Kraft fits.  

If the league wants to keep teams from considering this angle (and signal stealing is definitely serious enough), then a strong message needs to be sent.  And rightly or wrongly, NE's record here gives them zero benefit of the doubt.  It's on them to show they did this benignly, given they've already taken responsibility.   

Edited December 11, 2019 by Broncofan

[BayRaider]

14 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

The whole spygate thing was literally a dude recording from the wrong area. It was a semantics thing that got blown up.

Its to funny that people think the Pats needed to illegally record the 1-11 Bengals sideline. Keep those tin foil hats warm boys!!!

Is this a joke? Spygate was a 7 year long adventure that was the biggest cheating scandal in sports history with collections of decoded signals. 

Stop trying to sweep that under the run as “something that got blown” absolutely utterly ridiculous. 

Edit: Didn’t realize you are a Patriot fan. Of course. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by BayRaider

[MookieMonstah]

4 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Is this a joke? Spygate was a 7 year long adventure that was the biggest cheating scandal in sports history with collections of decoded signals. 

Stop trying to sweep that under the run as “something that got blown” absolutely utterly ridiculous. 

Edit: Didn’t realize you are a Patriot fan. Of course. 

Spygate was LITERALLY someone doing a legal action in an illegal location. The Rams walk through myth was completely busted. 

Edited December 11, 2019 by MookieMonstah

[Soko]

3 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

Spygate was LITERALLY someone doing a legal action in an illegal location. The Rams walk through myth was completely busted. 

He’s referencing an article from 2015. It has a lot of information on it, but none of it was ever proven (the article even has quotes suggesting the alleged cheating was counter-productive). 

And then he dismissed anything you have to say because “oH yOuR a PaTrIoTs FaN bYe”. 

[BayRaider]

Just now, MookieMonstah said:

Spygate was LITERALLY someone during a legal action in an illegal location. The Rams walk through myth was completely busted. 

Who cares about the Rams walkthrough theory? I am saying it was a 7 year adventure because that is a fact. ESPN released this in 2015 that Spygate was way bigger than anyone ever realized. 90 sources were interviewed including Patriot Former Coaches, Players, Front Office, and Neutral Parties. The Patriots started Spygate in 2000 and recorded a bare minimum of over 40 games. They had a whole collection archives of tons of decoded signals. 

Are you one of those delusional Patriot fans that think this was the Jet game only? You really can’t be serious right? It was a seven year long event. 

It was ALWAYS against the rules. The NFL sent out a memo to REMIND teams to f the rule (very generous, and didn’t wanna get their hands dirty) after the Packers caught the Patriots filming in 2006. That is a fact. 

Live in the real world. Not Patriot Fan delusional island like what they did wasn’t a big deal and blown out of proportion. That’s a terrible take that I can’t even put into words how absurd is and over the top delusional it is. 

Good luck with Spygate 2.0. Maybe there’s a small chance it’s coincidence.   

 

[Soko]

18 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

TL: DR version:

-Pats fans:   Everyone does it, it's the Bengals, they asked for permission, team film is available from each game, those guys aren't even on the org, ppl weren't aware this was a rules infraction.

-Non-Pats fans:  Team asked the Browns, then filmed the Bengals; the league film everyone gets doesn't show hand signals, they always know every rule but not this one?  Plus - how does anyone but Pats fans give NE the benefit of the doubt here?

The Pats admitted responsibility for a broken rule.  The argument that they unknowingly did this rings most hollow - these guys know the rules obscure enough on how to maneuver pick compensation  to get extra picks and how to not have to declare eligible receivers in-game to baffle the other DC (BAL playoff game), and they've been taken to task on recording other teams - and they unknowingly broke this one?   Come on.

I think the punishment should fit the crime - if it was anyone but the Pats, this would be a 3rd/4th round pick forfeited, and a 500K fine.   Given the Pats have committed an offence in this exact area before, I'd say a 1st and a 5M fine.   But no BB suspension - unless there's a more concrete trail.  But if the league wants to keep teams from considering this angle (and signal stealing is definitely serious enough), then a strong message needs to be sent.  And rightly or wrongly, NE's record here gives them zero benefit of the doubt.  It's on them to show they did this benignly, given they've already taken responsibility.   

Agree with a lot of this take. NE is/will be paying the stupid tax, at minimum. 

[Soko]

3 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

I am saying it was a 7 year adventure because that is a fact. 

Weren’t you accusing me of pandering to sports media the other day? Just because it comes from ESPN does not make it a fact. It cites unnamed sources for pretty much the duration of the article. Even in social media world - that’s not factual. It’s validity can be debated (and I’m sure I know where you stand already) but it’s not a “fact”, at least not a proven one. Unless that word’s meaning has changed recently.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Yin-Yang

[BayRaider]

Just now, Yin-Yang said:

Weren’t you accusing me of pandering to sports media the other day? Just because it comes from ESPN does not make it a fact. It cites unnamed sources for pretty much the duration of the article. Even in social media world - that’s not factual.

 

Yes let’s discredit 90 sources. Especially an extremely, down to the bones breakdown, in depth hardcore details, of how Spygate operated in and out. 

[m haynes]

7 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

He’s referencing an article from 2015. It has a lot of information on it, but none of it was ever proven (the article even has quotes suggesting the alleged cheating was counter-productive). 

And then he dismissed anything you have to say because “oH yOuR a PaTrIoTs FaN bYe”. 

I stop paying attention to him/her years ago.  How many rings for the Pats !!!!!!!!

[Soko]

5 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Yes let’s discredit 90 sources. Especially an extremely, down to the bones breakdown, in depth hardcore details, of how Spygate operated in and out. 

I never said to discredit them. It is actually you crediting their word with 100% certainty.

But unnamed sources do not substantiate something to call it a “fact”. And @BayRaider, you’re again falsely assuming that all 90 of the mostly unnamed sources are either coming to the same conclusion or are even all cited in the article. I suggest you re-read it.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Yin-Yang

[Soko]

Just now, m haynes said:

I stop paying attention to him/her years ago.  How many rings for the Pats !!!!!!!!

I don’t think anyone should be ignored, I’m not ignoring him. Honestly don’t have an issue if anyone wants to call NE dirty cheaters, just don’t falsely state things. All this nonsense is just fuel for the people who already hated the Patriots. 

The ones who hate the Pats hate them even more now, and the one who didn’t care still don’t. 

[m haynes]

6 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said:

Weren’t you accusing me of pandering to sports media the other day? Just because it comes from ESPN does not make it a fact. It cites unnamed sources for pretty much the duration of the article. Even in social media world - that’s not factual. It’s validity can be debated (and I’m sure I know where you stand already) but it’s not a “fact”, at least not a proven one. Unless that word’s meaning has changed recently.

Quote

comes from ESPN

You mean the buddies of Marshall Faulk!  Who was on thier nightly show. OOOOOK!

[diamondbull424]

Honestly I’ve reached a breaking point. They should be barred from the playoffs if the investigation turns up more evidence. Obviously they didn’t care that a first round draft pick was taken away, so obviously they won’t care if another pic was taken away, so the only way to punish them in a way they may care about is in the win and status column, i.e. in validating their playoff status this season. As far as I’m concerned considering their cheating in the past and this repeat, this is just short of how flagrant the Myles Garrett incident was for the league. Because if they don’t punish the patriots especially after this, they are welcoming all the other teams in the league to cheat in such ways.

Edited December 12, 2019 by diamondbull424

[VigilantZombie]

5 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Honestly I’ve reached a breaking point. They should be barred from the playoffs if the investigation turns up more evidence. Obviously they didn’t care that a first round draft pick was taken away, so obviously they won’t care if another pic was taken away, so the only way to punish them in a way they may care about is in the wind and status column, i.e. in validating their playoff status this season. As far as I’m concerned considering their cheating in the past and this repeat, this is just short of how flagrant the Myles Garrett incident was for the league. Because if they don’t punish the patriots especially after this, they are welcoming all the other teams in the league to cheat in such ways.

  I agree completely it's a like I said before I know they are 2 completely different topics but the point is the same

However Myles Garrett was made an example of for something that cannot be tolerated in the NFL This is also something that cannot be tolerated in the NFL