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New England Patriots Spygate 2.0?

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1 hour ago, Elky said:

Nah, this is literally nothing, especially compared to cheating the cap.

Recording coaching signals and knowing most plays the other team is gonna run is absolutely the biggest thing you can do cheating wise. Like... by far. Although what the Broncos did was indeed pretty bad. For a season or multi-season event, that's definitely my #2 in NFL History. A distant #2.

Hammer about to come down big time on the Astros for video taping signals, Hinch going bye bye whole year almost guaranteed. If this is Spygate 2.0 then it definitely would be not as lenient as their first punishment.

 

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1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

Do we really know if the NE Patriots deserve it here?

 Let me have patriots fans a question.

 If it is found that it is very likely they truly did cheat are you of the opinion there should be a punishment?

Now let me ask non-patriots fans a question are you suggesting there should be a punishment right now because of what has been done in the past rather than what you can prove right now?

If it ended right now, and they concluded that 8 minutes is the only thing, I'd slap a huge 500K fine and maybe a 4th Round Pick.

However, this absolutely demands a complete and very lengthy investigation (which I think will happen). If it is discovered they have been doing this all season, or even multiple seasons, then it should be two 1sts, max fine for Pats, Kraft, Bellichick, and Bellichick suspended two full seasons.

Edited by BayRaider

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2 hours ago, Elky said:

Funny considering Denver got busted for cheating the cap and routinely had the dirtiest offensive line under Shanahan.

They even covered themselves in Vaseline.

lol anything to gain an edge 

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2 hours ago, wwhickok said:

Do we really know if the NE Patriots deserve it here?

 Let me have patriots fans a question.

 If it is found that it is very likely they truly did cheat are you of the opinion there should be a punishment?

Now let me ask non-patriots fans a question are you suggesting there should be a punishment right now because of what has been done in the past rather than what you can prove right now?

Yes to both. 

If it really is just harmless, broadcast-type video like the one tweet suggested, there should still be a “stupid tax” NE pays for being in this scenario. A fine and maybe a later pick, but I can see it being a bit more to make the league look like it’s coming down hard. Suspensions or high draft picks would be excessive, if this is all there is IMO. It’s not about their past as much as it is the franchise admitting they should’ve notified the Bengals/league instead of just the Browns. Even if we’re inclined to take their word on every statement thus far, that’s fine worthy.

If it’s found that this is something crazy malicious and is a tip of the iceberg, I’d not only expect, but accept a punishment that fits the crime as long as there is good proof and not just speculation type evidence. Major fines, suspensions, draft picks, etc. 

We’ll see how it plays out, apparently it’s supposed to be wrapped up soon. I’d guess shortly after this week’s games.

Edited by Yin-Yang

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1 hour ago, Yin-Yang said:

Yes to both. 

If it really is just harmless, broadcast-type video like the one tweet suggested, there should still be a “stupid tax” NE pays for being in this scenario. A fine and maybe a later pick, but I can see it being a bit more to make the league look like it’s coming down hard. Suspensions or high draft picks would be excessive, if this is all there is IMO. It’s not about their past as much as it is the franchise admitting they should’ve notified the Bengals/league instead of just the Browns. Even if we’re inclined to take their word on every statement thus far, that’s fine worthy.

If it’s found that this is something crazy malicious and is a tip of the iceberg, I’d not only expect, but accept a punishment that fits the crime as long as there is good proof and not just speculation type evidence. Major fines, suspensions, draft picks, etc. 

We’ll see how it plays out, apparently it’s supposed to be wrapped up soon. I’d guess shortly after this week’s games.

Fair on both counts.   With an admission by the org, there's no getting out of a penalty - it's just a question of how much.   But no suspensions, if this is all that's found with the 8 min video admission.    The pick probably has to be at least a Day 2 pick for deterrent value, though - and given past history here, a 1st wouldn't surprise me.   A Day 2 pick wouldn't be outrageous, but I think a Day 3 pick would be seen as letting an org with a repeat history in this exact area, as getting off easy.  I doubt the league wants that from a PR perspective, given the history here.

The only way it goes deeper is if there's more evidence beyond CIN.    If there is, well, then there's a lot more on the table.   Nothing more, and we're talking picks/fines.  It's just a degree of how much.

Edited by Broncofan
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The "everyone does it" stuff going back more than a decade is great. So the Patriots are just the most incompetent team as far as keeping all of this stuff quiet and everyone else is great at it? Or is this part of the "everyone vs. the Patriots" narrative where only they get snitched on because everyone else is jealous? 

Either way Pats fans, why go through the back-and-forths with everyone every time? Just embrace your inner villains. It's better and easier that way. I personally don't care about this stuff that much, more power to you for what you can get away with. 

Edited by BroncoBruin
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I've always thought taking away cap space would be a more effective punishment than draft picks, especially for a perpetually great team. Belichick will run circles around the league and get 25 picks anyway. Harder to get around having less cap to work with. 

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2 hours ago, Chiefer said:

They even covered themselves in Vaseline.

lol anything to gain an edge 

Kiss the rings. 

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4 hours ago, Broncofan said:

Ah yes and they got punished for it.  Glad you agree the Pats deserve it here given that’s your only take.    

And Mike would have blown that pick on a defensive player who'd be out of the league in 2004. It all worked out! 

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4 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

The "everyone does it" stuff going back more than a decade is great. So the Patriots are just the most incompetent team as far as keeping all of this stuff quiet and everyone else is great at it? Or is this part of the "everyone vs. the Patriots" narrative where only they get snitched on because everyone else is jealous? 

Either way Pats fans, why go through the back-and-forths with everyone every time? Just embrace your inner villains. It's better and easier that way. I personally don't care about this stuff that much, more power to you for what you can get away with. 

No, when other teams get caught it's a one-day story and fans dont care.

Agree on embracing being a villian, though. Nothing can take away the happiness I felt when they won each of their 6, particularly (for me) 2001 and 2014

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10 hours ago, Elky said:

Nah, this is literally nothing, especially compared to cheating the cap.

Except it's not "nothing". Pats even admitted they unknowingly (meh) broke a rule. 

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So this was nothing, as most reasonable people assumed when the story broke. Those that keep trying to make something out of nothing are obviously not fond of the Pats, not surprised. The jealousy in this thread is ugly. 

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7 hours ago, BroncoBruin said:

I've always thought taking away cap space would be a more effective punishment than draft picks, especially for a perpetually great team. Belichick will run circles around the league and get 25 picks anyway. Harder to get around having less cap to work with. 

If they’re willing to cheat in the same ways over and over again, I’m sure Craft just pays the players under the table or something. I have absolutely zero faith in that franchise.

Only effective punishment I see is to go towards college football. Bar the Patriots team from the playoffs this season and potentially next depending on severity. Most want the hammer to fall on only BB, but Craft owns this franchise and others are CLEARLY involved in the operation. If this isn’t innocent, treat this situation like a USC/Penn State ban. And once players decide they don’t want to play for an organization that can win but has no shot at the playoffs, the organization will get the message. Going from first to potentially worst would be quite the hammer to deliver.

If it’s some innocuous videos and there’s no other videos determined, my trust is still gone with their organization. Wouldn’t drop a hammer but would fine the organization a max amount and take away a 2nd round pick. Heavy penalty? Probably.  A 4th/5th might be more “reasonable” as a slap on the hand, but just like a felon has to be more mindful than the rest of society about exposing themselves to a situation, same here. They’ve had too many “gates” for this to be merely a slap on the hand IMO.

 

Edit:

... and this is coming from someone that prior to this felt that what they did before was just, “if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying.” And I didn’t quite pay attention to deflategate, just seemed like a weird way to cheat. But to cheat twice in the same manner is absolutely disrespectful. It shows you don’t care about the rules or punishments. I’m down for second chances. But that’s where my kindness stops.

Edited by diamondbull424

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Isn't it technically legal to film the opponents sideline as long as it's from the booth, and not on the day your playing said opponent? Would it not then be legal to study those signals and use those tapes to your advantage? Is it cheating if you're playing within the rules of the game?

I know the Pats got caught filming outside of the designated location, but what else am I missing here?

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26 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

If they’re willing to cheat in the same ways over and over again, I’m sure Craft just pays the players under the table or something. I have absolutely zero faith in that franchise.

Only effective punishment I see is to go towards college football. Bar the Patriots team from the playoffs this season and potentially next depending on severity. Most want the hammer to fall on only BB, but Craft owns this franchise and others are CLEARLY involved in the operation. If this isn’t innocent,. And once players decide they don’t want to play for an organization that can win but has no shot at the playoffs, the organization will get the message. Going from first to potentially worst would be quite the hammer to deliver.

If it’s some innocuous videos and there’s no other videos determined, my trust is still gone with their organization. Wouldn’t drop a hammer but would fine the organization a max amount and take away a 2nd round pick. Heavy penalty? Probably.  A 4th/5th might be more “reasonable” as a slap on the hand, but just like a felon has to be more mindful than the rest of society about exposing themselves to a situation, same here. They’ve had too many “gates” for this to be merely a slap on the hand IMO.

 

Edit:

... and this is coming from someone that prior to this felt that what they did before was just, “if you ain’t cheating you ain’t trying.” And I didn’t quite pay attention to deflategate, just seemed like a weird way to cheat. But to cheat twice in the same manner is absolutely disrespectful. It shows you don’t care about the rules or punishments. I’m down for second chances. But that’s where my kindness stops.

You said it.  "treat this situation like a USC/Penn State ban" You need to go back to the drawing board, your suggestion is unrealistic.  The players have contracts where they have to play for the Pats.  Now, you have taken away the effort to compete. The Pats treat the game like preseason. Who care if they win!  I hate to be that team fighting for a playoff birth depending on the Pats.  Lets say it your team and you miss out making the playoffs.

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