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New England Patriots Spygate 2.0?


RuskieTitan

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7 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

Cool

 

I didn't dismiss your links because "its about a team cheating that is not the Pats". I'm just not going to keep doing your homework for you.

Yeah I am sure your opinion would be the same if it was the Patriots doing this. One team films the opponents sideline and you clutch your pearls. Another team does it and, on cue, you shout "But but but it's different!!" Just as I said you would.

What about the Panthers and Vikings warming up balls? What about the Jets altering a kicking ball? What about the Giants measuring a Steelers ball and seeing that it was low PSI? What about 3 of 4 Colts balls in the same game having low PSI? All those must be different too, right? Lol. So transparent.

Edited by childofpudding
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1 minute ago, childofpudding said:

Yeah I am sure your opinion would be the same if it was the Patriots doing this. One team films the opponents sideline and you clutch your pearls. Another team does it and, on cue, you shout "But but but it's different!!" Just as I said you would.

What about the Panthers and Vikings warming up balls? What about the Jets altering a kicking ball? What about the Giants measuring a Steelers ball and seeing that it was low PSI? All those must be different too, right? Lol. So transparent.

I mean, when the article you linked says the findings were that the team in question didn't break the rules and we have the Pats admitting to breaking the rules, I think it's a pretty clear cut conclusion: it is different.

I'm not reading more of this fluff just because you already lost ground on the filming links. Now I have to go read about air pressure? No thank you.

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11 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

I mean, when the article you linked says the findings were that the team in question didn't break the rules and we have the Pats admitting to breaking the rules, I think it's a pretty clear cut conclusion: it is different.

I'm not reading more of this fluff just because you already lost ground on the filming links. Now I have to go read about air pressure? No thank you.

You couldnt even disprove the first link about the Jets in 2006, so do what you'd like lol. The rule said no filming anywhere, the ESPN story neglected to mention that. You just proved my point that you and others only clutch their pearls if the Patriots do it. For everyone else it's a one-day story, as I said.

Edited by childofpudding
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4 hours ago, childofpudding said:

You couldnt even disprove the first link about the Jets in 2006, so do what you'd like lol. The rule said no filming anywhere, the ESPN story neglected to mention that. You just proved my point that you and others only clutch their pearls if the Patriots do it. For everyone else it's a one-day story, as I said.

Are you saying that teams can't film games from anywhere? That's the rule?

And I discussed the first link. Apparently it's a poor source that doesn't have all the supporting evidence you need to prop up your argument so you can say "clutch your pearls" more.

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46 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Let’s not forget this is actually the third incident of Spygate. McDaniels and his crew were caught filming the 49ers walk through in 2010 when he was Head Coach of the Broncos. 

Like Father Like Son

I can imagine McDaniels sitting with the rest of the Denver staff, "Look, we just need to tape a few defensive signals. Once we get those, this offense is going to click! It worked wonders for us in New England."

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20 hours ago, Joe_is_the_best said:

It’s funny that some people say 'there’s nothing to see here' yet accuse others of being the biased ones. The facts are clear:

  • The Patriots asked the Browns for permission to record from the press box for a video series. The Bengals were not informed.
  • The 'Patriots' Film Crew was recording the Bengals' sideline for the 'entire first quarter.' 
  • Bengals' security confronted the Film Crew, who turned the footage over.
  • The Patriots acknowledged that "the production crew [...] inappropriately filmed the field from the press box."
  • The production team included a full-time Patriots employee (per Jeff Howe). The Patriots had stated that the team "included independent contractors who shot the video."

Here are a few quotes from Belichick:

Quote

"evidently this is our production people on the TV show that were there. I have absolutely nothing to do — we have absolutely nothing to do with anything that they produce, direct, shoot or anything."

Quote

"So this is something that we 100 percent have zero involvement with."

Quote

"we have absolutely nothing to do with the production people and what they do for the TV show and everything else, other than I tape a TV show with them."

The article notes:

Quote

Belichick said the advance scout was “absolutely not” recording Cincinnati’s sideline, which is illegal under NFL rules.

Yet the Patriots' statement read:

Quote

We understand and acknowledge that our video crew, which included independent contractors who shot the video, unknowingly violated a league policy by filming the field and sideline from the press box.

Note: I'm not accusing the Patriots of lying here. It is plausible that the advance scout had nothing to do with the recording. But it's not a great look.

One last quote:

Quote

“A scout can’t film the opponents as an advance scout, and our video people aren’t even allowed to point a camera at our opponents in pregame warmup or their side of the field or anything else to test out their equipment. They 100 percent know — all of our scouts, all of our video people and everything — they absolutely know what that is."

Take all of this in and try to say honestly "there's nothing here" or "nothing happened." I'm not quite ready to put on a tin-foil hat just yet, but there was absolutely wrongdoing. In a vacuum, it's very possible Belichick didn't know until afterward, but this ain't their first rodeo. It's also possible he didn't want to know, so he wouldn't be blamed for anything. Suffice it to say there will be a punishment (perhaps severe, perhaps not), but without something more, without a "smoking gun," as they say, any talk of voiding championships or playoff disqualification is premature.

This was a great breakdown. BB clearly contradicts the pats statement. You can't deny that at all, it's inconsistent at best 

Bengals security guy in the browns press box is a legend

Edited by N4L
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2 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

Aside from maybe the hurry up, do teams even use signals anymore?

Tony Dungy said no... Notorious Pat's Hater Ton Dungy said there's no signals to steal anymore since there are mics in the QBs helmet now. People in here trying to say this is the Pats trying to cheat lack common sense. 

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9 hours ago, NJerseypaint said:

Are you saying that teams can't film games from anywhere? That's the rule?

And I discussed the first link. Apparently it's a poor source that doesn't have all the supporting evidence you need to prop up your argument so you can say "clutch your pearls" more.

I then provided more evidence, which you ignored. That link had the rule and the 2006 memo. I also provided several other links of teams being punished much lighter or not at all for ball manipulation or low PSI, which you also ignored because you didnt feel like reading about air pressure, or something.

While I think the 2007 Spygate punishment was appropriate, Deflategate was shown to be a sham and other teams caught for similar filming and ball manipulation violations have been punished a lot more lightly.

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10 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Let’s not forget this is actually the third incident of Spygate. McDaniels and his crew were caught filming the 49ers walk through in 2010 when he was Head Coach of the Broncos. 

Like Father Like Son

This is actually great evidence that other teams are treated differently. Thank you.

Edited by childofpudding
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6 minutes ago, childofpudding said:

I then provided more evidence, which you ignored. That link had the rule and the 2006 memo. I also provided several other links of teams being punished much lighter or not at all for ball manipulation or low PSI, which you also ignored because you didnt feel like reading about air pressure, or something.

While I think the 2007 Spygate punishment was appropriate, Deflategate was shown to be a sham and other teams caught for similar filming and ball manipulation violations have been punished a lot more lightly.

So we're moving on from filming to deflated footballs because the links you provided don't quite fit your narrative? I commented read both your links regarding the 2006 article, and the memo doesn't say anything about filming from the endzone - just the sideline. I'd copy and paste it for you, but haven't I spoon fed you enough?

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11 minutes ago, NJerseypaint said:

So we're moving on from filming to deflated footballs because the links you provided don't quite fit your narrative? I commented read both your links regarding the 2006 article, and the memo doesn't say anything about filming from the endzone - just the sideline. I'd copy and paste it for you, but haven't I spoon fed you enough?

I provided you a direct link to the rule and the memo (here's the link again in case you missed it: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d802456c2/article/belichick-speaks-with-goodell-apologizes-for-videotape-flap). Since you seem unwilling to look at it, here it is:

Quote

1. Page 105 of the Game Operations manual says: "No video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." It later says: "All video shooting locations must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

2. And, a memo from Ray Anderson, NFL head of football operations, to head coaches and GMs on Sept. 6, 2006 said: "Video taping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponentâs offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coachesâ booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

I bolded the relevant parts for your help. If you truly feel that Mangini's filming from the endzones is materially different to the point where one is allowed and other deserves losing a first-round draft pick and $500k fine for the head coach, then you are proving my initial point.

You asked for links of other teams getting caught, and when I provided a bunch, you incorrectly argued about the very first one, dismissed the second, and then refused to look at any of the others.

Edited by childofpudding
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3 hours ago, childofpudding said:

I provided you a direct link to the rule and the memo (here's the link again in case you missed it: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d802456c2/article/belichick-speaks-with-goodell-apologizes-for-videotape-flap). Since you seem unwilling to look at it, here it is:

I bolded the relevant parts for your help. If you truly feel that Mangini's filming from the endzones is materially different to the point where one is allowed and other deserves losing a first-round draft pick and $500k fine for the head coach, then you are proving my initial point.

You asked for links of other teams getting caught, and when I provided a bunch, you incorrectly argued about the very first one, dismissed the second, and then refused to look at any of the others.

I'm glad you finally brought your own evidence this time, direct quotes and all.

And it should be pointed out the memo specifically mentions sidelines, while the rule (well the summary we get from the website) is more broad, seeming to only allow filming if it's in a room that isn't the locker room or coaches booth. The last part of the memo kinda gives the impression that NFL teams can't film anywhere, so that's pretty confusing.

But as it happened, the NFL saw fit to punish NE and not the Jets, so there must have been a key difference to the circumstances. To me, it looks like it's from where the filming was done; sideline vs endzone. Filming from the endzones looks to be materially different to the point where one is allowed and other deserves losing a first-round draft pick and $500k fine for the head coach. Possibly could be also what was filmed, but that we'll never know.

Again, we end at the same result. You can't show that NYJ broke the rules, unless you are willing to go as far as saying that filming games from anywhere is breaking the rules.

All your other links don't matter because I'm not reading 8 different articles to try and find your argument. Do some of the work yourself, gather your sources, quote your support, and provide a conclusion instead of asking me to do the leg work for you.

Edited by NJerseypaint
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1 hour ago, NJerseypaint said:

I'm glad you finally brought your own evidence this time, direct quotes and all.

And it should be pointed out the memo specifically mentions sidelines, while the rule (well the summary we get from the website) is more broad, seeming to only allow filming if it's in a room that isn't the locker room or coaches booth. The last part of the memo kinda gives the impression that NFL teams can't film anywhere, so that's pretty confusing.

But as it happened, the NFL saw fit to punish NE and not the Jets, so there must have been a key difference to the circumstances. To me, it looks like it's from where the filming was done; sideline vs endzone. Filming from the endzones looks to be materially different to the point where one is allowed and other deserves losing a first-round draft pick and $500k fine for the head coach, then you are proving my initial point. Possibly could be also what was filmed, but that we'll never know.

Again, we end at the same result. You can't show that NYJ broke the rules, unless you are willing to go as far as saying that filming games from anywhere is breaking the rules.

All your other links don't matter because I'm not reading 8 different articles to try and find your argument. Do some of the work yourself, gather your sources, quote your support, and provide a conclusion instead of asking me to do the leg work for you.

Thx for proving my point

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