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New England Patriots Spygate 2.0?

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9 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

Aside from maybe the hurry up, do teams even use signals anymore?

Yes they still do. Saints knew all of the Cowboys signals according to Saints players. They got them from Moores college tape who carried over his signals from his system in college as a QB. If you watch that game closely, Cowboys scored 10 points and the Saints knew everything the Cowboys were going to do, watch the All 22 film. Although the Saints got the signals legally as Moore and his coaches didn’t do anything to hide them on TV. So I have zero issue with it. 

Also, it would give Beichick a huge advantage during two minute no huddles during the end of half and end of game. 

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33 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

Yes they still do. Saints knew all of the Cowboys signals according to Saints players. They got them from Moores college tape who carried over his signals from his system in college as a QB. If you watch that game closely, Cowboys scored 10 points and the Saints knew everything the Cowboys were going to do, watch the All 22 film. Although the Saints got the signals legally as Moore and his coaches didn’t do anything to hide them on TV. So I have zero issue with it. 

Also, it would give Beichick a huge advantage during two minute no huddles during the end of half and end of game. 

Recording signals is decades old.

Aikman references Jimmy Johnson on recording signals when he was with the Cowboys
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2015/09/12/troy-aikman-jimmy-johnson-filmed-signals-as-head-coach-of-the-dallas-cowboys/

Jimmy implicates other people in this reference as well, and I believe he got it from personnel on the Chiefs
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2008/2/23/122122/210

Transcript of Madden talking about it as a practice in '92
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/john-madden-talked-about-filming-opposing-teams-signals-in-1992/

This doesn't take into account the myriads of other methods teams have used since the dawn of the sport to decode what the other team is doing.  Recording the signals or memorizing them is the same result.  You know the call.  So your example fits for any opposing coaching staff who has cracked your code, and they all did what they could to achieve that very goal.  Cowher, Dungy, Shanny, Johnson, etc etc etc etc.

This notwithstanding, you break the rules, you're assuming the consequences.  I break the speed limit, I'm gonna get a ticket if caught.  But I still do it when I assume the risk of getting caught is lowest.  The Pats kept at it post-memo and got busted, but to imply that they're some kind of isolated example is being naive for the sake of trolling.

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14 hours ago, N4L said:

This was a great breakdown. BB clearly contradicts the pats statement. You can't deny that at all, it's inconsistent at best 

Bengals security guy in the browns press box is a legend

I thought Bill was saying “we” as himself and anyone that he hired/is in direct contact with (assistants, coaches, scouts, etc). He was even referring to himself before correcting it and going over as “we”. The Pats’ statement says “we” because they’re the over watching organization and I guess directly contracted this video crew. 

Bill’s the mastermind but I’m not certain he is overseeing the “Do Your Job” documentary. I’m sure (as with any organization) there are different branches or managers that are responsible for things like documentaries, charity events, and stuff like that. 

Probably sounds like a “wishful” thinking post from a Pats fan, but i didn’t see Bill’s statement contradicting the Pats one. 

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11 minutes ago, IheartMyV8 said:

Recording signals is decades old.

Aikman references Jimmy Johnson on recording signals when he was with the Cowboys
https://www.dallasnews.com/sports/cowboys/2015/09/12/troy-aikman-jimmy-johnson-filmed-signals-as-head-coach-of-the-dallas-cowboys/

Jimmy implicates other people in this reference as well, and I believe he got it from personnel on the Chiefs
https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2008/2/23/122122/210

Transcript of Madden talking about it as a practice in '92
https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/john-madden-talked-about-filming-opposing-teams-signals-in-1992/

This doesn't take into account the myriads of other methods teams have used since the dawn of the sport to decode what the other team is doing.  Recording the signals or memorizing them is the same result.  You know the call.  So your example fits for any opposing coaching staff who has cracked your code, and they all did what they could to achieve that very goal.  Cowher, Dungy, Shanny, Johnson, etc etc etc etc.

This notwithstanding, you break the rules, you're assuming the consequences.  I break the speed limit, I'm gonna get a ticket if caught.  But I still do it when I assume the risk of getting caught is lowest.  The Pats kept at it post-memo and got busted, but to imply that they're some kind of isolated example is being naive for the sake of trolling.

Then I suppose the Pats are the dumbest for getting caught twice (three times if you count McDaniels on Denver, and he's part of the organization before and after) while not a single other franchise in the history of the sport 100+ years has never been caught once.

Just because other teams had never gotten caught before, does not mean the Patriots shouldn't be punished to the complete and utter maximum if this is Spygate 2.0 and has been going on all season. It's still cheating and gives a huge competitive advantage. End of story. If an investigation deems it's been going on all year, Goodbye Bellichick next season and goodbye two first round picks.

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If this is an illegal taping by the Pats, my guess is that no NE coach sees the tapes.  Ernie Adams is the only one who views them and sends the report to BB.  Good luck proving that .

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2 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Then I suppose the Pats are the dumbest for getting caught twice (three times if you count McDaniels on Denver, and he's part of the organization before and after) while not a single other franchise in the history of the sport 100+ years has never been caught once.

Just because other teams had never gotten caught before, does not mean the Patriots shouldn't be punished to the complete and utter maximum if this is Spygate 2.0 and has been going on all season. It's still cheating and gives a huge competitive advantage. End of story. If an investigation deems it's been going on all year, Goodbye Bellichick next season and goodbye two first round picks.

I don’t know how else to say it - FILMING SIGNALS IS NOT CHEATING.

The reason no other teams “got caught” is that they didn’t film from the wrong place (or did before The league made a big deal about it).

In 2006 the league decided to clampdown on recording from the sideline, which is technically against the rules. They chose to make an example of the Patriots, and the press made it a “scandal”.  But all they were punished for is filming from the wrong place.

It was a new commissioner throwing his weight around to make point, hardly the greatest cheating scandal of all time.

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3 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Yes they still do.

How many teams do? How many times do they use hand signals per game? Are you definitively sure or are you just guessing?

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15 minutes ago, ChazStandard said:

I don’t know how else to say it - FILMING SIGNALS IS NOT CHEATING.

The reason no other teams “got caught” is that they didn’t film from the wrong place (or did before The league made a big deal about it).

In 2006 the league decided to clampdown on recording from the sideline, which is technically against the rules. 

From what I’ve gathered reading this Spygate stuff for the last few days, you’re right. What I don’t get is what the fuss is all about. If filming signals is legal, how is that cheating? It might be unethical, but it’s not cheating if it’s within the rules of the game.

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I can see it now... 

Brady ready to snap... Belichick demands that the league take a time out so  coaches can break down the film and figure out what Bengals called for the defense,  allowing the Pats to send the appropriate signal to Tom.

 

Brilliant!

 

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Weird how little media outcry there has been about this when you think how  it's the media cycle was around deflate gate. 

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On 12/12/2019 at 12:43 PM, Cheesehawk said:

And that my friends is what we like to call a formula.

That my friends is sporting your claim with a person who is  proven liar.

Also a former "Assistant coach" in your attachment. Wrong!!

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/19569-new-england-patriots-matt-walshs-credibility-problem

 

https://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/threads/a-running-list-of-matt-walshs-lies.82891/

 

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19 hours ago, BayRaider said:

Then I suppose the Pats are the dumbest for getting caught twice (three times if you count McDaniels on Denver, and he's part of the organization before and after) while not a single other franchise in the history of the sport 100+ years has never been caught once.

Just because other teams had never gotten caught before, does not mean the Patriots shouldn't be punished to the complete and utter maximum if this is Spygate 2.0 and has been going on all season. It's still cheating and gives a huge competitive advantage. End of story. If an investigation deems it's been going on all year, Goodbye Bellichick next season and goodbye two first round picks.

It's not a huge advantage.  I take a picture of a list of test answers and give it to you, vs. I look at the test and write down the answers and give it to you.  The data is the same, the answers are the same, the advantage is the same.

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On 12/13/2019 at 6:06 PM, BayRaider said:

Then I suppose the Pats are the dumbest for getting caught twice (three times if you count McDaniels on Denver, and he's part of the organization before and after) while not a single other franchise in the history of the sport 100+ years has never been caught once.

Just because other teams had never gotten caught before, does not mean the Patriots shouldn't be punished to the complete and utter maximum if this is Spygate 2.0 and has been going on all season. It's still cheating and gives a huge competitive advantage. End of story. If an investigation deems it's been going on all year, Goodbye Bellichick next season and goodbye two first round picks.

BayRaider, one question:  Are you on drugs, dude?

 

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