BayRaider Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Split the Sticks said: BayRaider, one question: Are you on drugs, dude? No. I’m legit asking a question. Why would other teams not getting caught before, mean the Patriots are immune from getting caught to breaking the rules and being punished. That literally makes zero sense. Other teams back in the 90’s got away with it. Too late now. Because they got away with it, Pats shouldn’t be punished? Edited December 15, 2019 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 On 12/13/2019 at 7:31 PM, SmittyBacall said: How many teams do? How many times do they use hand signals per game? Are you definitively sure or are you just guessing? I imagine they would all have to. At least a backup option. The headsets cut audio at 15 second left on the play clock. And if there's a technical failure, the rulebook basically says tough. So I imagine all teams would have them at least as a backup option or for late adjustments.. I doubt anyone uses it as primary communication though. No insider knowledge here, just trying to use logic. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K9 Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 If this was TRULY an accident (which I think it was) and Belichick TRULY didn't know (which I don't think he did) then the Patriots should reprimand those involved; to show that they have learned and changed and will not tolerate this. These incidents have occurred all too many times with this organization and with little penalties from WITHIN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 1 hour ago, Jakuvious said: I imagine they would all have to. At least a backup option. The headsets cut audio at 15 second left on the play clock. And if there's a technical failure, the rulebook basically says tough. So I imagine all teams would have them at least as a backup option or for late adjustments.. I doubt anyone uses it as primary communication though. No insider knowledge here, just trying to use logic. That’s kind of what I mean though. We’re mostly guessing. It’s all conjecture just how valuable this information is, or how often it can be used against an opponent. People are so quick to uproar without even really knowing the details. While it’s probably an advantage, we don’t know how big of an advantage it is. It could very well be insignificant, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 8 hours ago, SmittyBacall said: That’s kind of what I mean though. We’re mostly guessing. It’s all conjecture just how valuable this information is, or how often it can be used against an opponent. People are so quick to uproar without even really knowing the details. While it’s probably an advantage, we don’t know how big of an advantage it is. It could very well be insignificant, no? I said before in this thread, and I may be alone here, but I don't really think it matters. I don't think the Patriots were trying to cheat, but that isn't really the point. The point is simply that they broke a rule, and that requires punishment. Accidental DPI, or unintentional tampering, carry the same penalties as if it were purposeful. If a lineman commits holding but still allows a sack, you still throw the flag. Similarly, the success or usefulness of the rule breaking shouldn't dictate the severity of punishment either. If the information was useless, that's really irrelevant to the breaking of the rule. And by extension should be irrelevant to the punishment. My belief from the start, is that the Patriots weren't trying to cheat, but they did break a known NFL rule and admitted to it. And given that it's a rule they have a history with, they should probably have a painful punishment coming. I don't think the info was useful. I don't think it was intentional cheating. There are a lot of stupid things to it. But I think it goes down a weird road to try to punish intent or to punish by how successful the rule breaking was. They broke a rule, they face a penalty, that should be the end of it, IMO. But maybe I'm oversimplifying, I dunno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 10 minutes ago, Jakuvious said: I said before in this thread, and I may be alone here, but I don't really think it matters. I don't think the Patriots were trying to cheat, but that isn't really the point. The point is simply that they broke a rule, and that requires punishment. Accidental DPI, or unintentional tampering, carry the same penalties as if it were purposeful. If a lineman commits holding but still allows a sack, you still throw the flag. Similarly, the success or usefulness of the rule breaking shouldn't dictate the severity of punishment either. If the information was useless, that's really irrelevant to the breaking of the rule. And by extension should be irrelevant to the punishment. My belief from the start, is that the Patriots weren't trying to cheat, but they did break a known NFL rule and admitted to it. And given that it's a rule they have a history with, they should probably have a painful punishment coming. I don't think the info was useful. I don't think it was intentional cheating. There are a lot of stupid things to it. But I think it goes down a weird road to try to punish intent or to punish by how successful the rule breaking was. They broke a rule, they face a penalty, that should be the end of it, IMO. But maybe I'm oversimplifying, I dunno. Agreed. The punishment should fit the crime. I just think it’s crazy people go so far as to say their Lombardi’s should come with asterisks. Like, really? That’s taking it too far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 9 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Agreed. The punishment should fit the crime. I just think it’s crazy people go so far as to say their Lombardi’s should come with asterisks. Like, really? That’s taking it too far. Oh, for sure. That's when you get people who are just looking for something to justify doubting them. Like, I definitely think the Pats have stretched and occasionally broken the rules over the past 20 years, but it's a complicated game with so many layers and elements that the only way to have prolonged success is just to be crazy good anyway. The Pats are great because they're great. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uncle Buck Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 10 hours ago, K9 said: If this was TRULY an accident (which I think it was) and Belichick TRULY didn't know (which I don't think he did) then the Patriots should reprimand those involved; to show that they have learned and changed and will not tolerate this. These incidents have occurred all too many times with this organization and with little penalties from WITHIN. I think it's past that point, personally. If you are the Patriots, you have already had a big scandal with something very similar. Is it really worth trashing your reputation when you've experienced almost a 20-year era of greatness? This extends to the league too. You have a team that has been dominant for two decades and you now have a second situation where it at least looks like they could be cheating to gain an edge. I think the league needs to step in and put a stop to this kind of thing. How they do that, I don't know, but some kind of punishment is warranted. It's not enough for Belichick to claim he didn't know. At the very least, the Patriots were very sloppy in the way they handled this. There is no excuse in their situation. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Split the Sticks Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 13 hours ago, BayRaider said: No. I’m legit asking a question. Why would other teams not getting caught before, mean the Patriots are immune from getting caught to breaking the rules and being punished. That literally makes zero sense. Other teams back in the 90’s got away with it. Too late now. Because they got away with it, Pats shouldn’t be punished? I could play games with you here, Raider dude, but that would be bad sportsmanship so I'll be up front. You do realize that now - as in 2007, it is not against NFL rules to steal signals, right? Do you even KNOW why the Pats were punished in 2007? Did you know that OC's and DC's send in plays verbally over the microphone and not by using hand signals? Do you have any idea who this filming crew in Cincinatti was - because I sure don't. Please tell me. They are not Patriot hires, as best I know. And finally, since you have already passed verdict on the Patriots please tell me what was on those videos? What evidence of wrongdoing do you have? <grin> you don't have anything, do ya, Raider dude LOL! Oh, you do have a lot of jelly. I get it. Have a nice day, dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Ron Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 11 hours ago, SmittyBacall said: That’s kind of what I mean though. We’re mostly guessing. It’s all conjecture just how valuable this information is, or how often it can be used against an opponent. People are so quick to uproar without even really knowing the details. While it’s probably an advantage, we don’t know how big of an advantage it is. It could very well be insignificant, no? Even if they gain is only marginal, it is still a gain. It would give a slight advantage. If they were getting similar gains elsewhere, then it becomes more significant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmittyBacall Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 Wow, this looks terrible. They got caught. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjapirate Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 the pats are gonna be heavily fined and lose some draft picks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 23 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Wow, this looks terrible. They got caught. Ah yes definitely not an accident ban them from the playoffs ban belichick down with the cheating empire! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mega Ron Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 29 minutes ago, SmittyBacall said: Wow, this looks terrible. They got caught. Good. I think they should kick them out of the whole thing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistakey Posted December 15, 2019 Share Posted December 15, 2019 4 hours ago, Jakuvious said: I said before in this thread, and I may be alone here, but I don't really think it matters. I don't think the Patriots were trying to cheat, but that isn't really the point. The point is simply that they broke a rule, and that requires punishment. Accidental DPI, or unintentional tampering, carry the same penalties as if it were purposeful. If a lineman commits holding but still allows a sack, you still throw the flag. Similarly, the success or usefulness of the rule breaking shouldn't dictate the severity of punishment either. If the information was useless, that's really irrelevant to the breaking of the rule. And by extension should be irrelevant to the punishment. My belief from the start, is that the Patriots weren't trying to cheat, but they did break a known NFL rule and admitted to it. And given that it's a rule they have a history with, they should probably have a painful punishment coming. I don't think the info was useful. I don't think it was intentional cheating. There are a lot of stupid things to it. But I think it goes down a weird road to try to punish intent or to punish by how successful the rule breaking was. They broke a rule, they face a penalty, that should be the end of it, IMO. But maybe I'm oversimplifying, I dunno. imagine getting caught cheating, doing it again and then getting the benefit of the doubt if only i was that lucky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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