BayRaider Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) At all. Reading a couple articles and seeing Michael Irvin and Max Kellermen bash Brady forced me to make this thread. Laughable, really. Nobody ever wants to look at substance. - His WR core is utter T-R-A-S-H. Probably Bottom 3 to 4 in the NFL. Edelmen is the only guy really and he’s constantly schemed against and taken out of the game. - They have no TE. - Their Offensive Line is probably in the 20-25 range. It only looks semi decent because of Bradys high football IQ, able to make progressions fast, and get the ball off. - All their RBs are dreadful and averaging 3 YPC. A lot of this is offensive line and a lot of this is that Michel was their feature back and he has never seemed like himself again. - Josh McDaniels play calling has been awful this season and Boomer Esiason just called him out on it. Tom Brady is the ONLY reason that team is moving the chains. He still looks like the same Tom Brady to me from 2015-2018. Is he the same guy from 2011? Of course not, but he is still easily a Top 5 QB and IMO I still have him Top 3. I absolutely think he will lead some team to the playoffs next season. I mean I hope the Pats go down in a blaze of glory in the Spygate 2.0 scandal but the way Brady is getting criticized lately simply is not fair and not warranted. Brady is still a beast. Edited December 10, 2019 by BayRaider 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlNFL19 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 To me, the problems are the offensive line and McDaniels. You can say the running game too, but those two are what I credit for its failure so far. The offensive line gives Brady a millisecond to throw every pass, and McDaniels is so predictable that he runs the same two trick plays when he needs to pull a rabbit out of his hat. Tom still has the same arm and the same accuracy. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 10 minutes ago, AlNFL19 said: To me, the problems are the offensive line and McDaniels. You can say the running game too, but those two are what I credit for its failure so far. The offensive line gives Brady a millisecond to throw every pass, and McDaniels is so predictable that he runs the same two trick plays when he needs to pull a rabbit out of his hat. Tom still has the same arm and the same accuracy. Yep same arm as 2015 and accuracy. People box score scout and see an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viper952 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 I don't see any drop off. It's his line Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 We know. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 Just now, MKnight82 said: We know. Media treating him like 2015 Manning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 There’s some drop off, I’d say. Not a ton and not as much as some think, IMO. I’ve seen Brady operate with similar circumstances (2013 is the big one) and the same comments were made then, only difference is Brady’s in uncharted territory as a 42 year old. I think more of a factor than the actual WRs is the chemistry. Sanu got added to the team midseason. Harry spent a lot of time injured. Meyers didn’t get much playtime and was going through camp battling for a roster spot. Dorsett hasn’t been healthy and neither has Edelman. Add in the abyss that is the tight end depth chart and you’ll get this. The NE offense has been a timing offense for a while now and Brady needs to trust in his guys. Seems he only has that trust for Edelman and Dorsett right now and they’re injured. So yeah, anyone who says “he’s done” or something close to that effect ought to look at 2013. But anyone who says there’s no difference in Brady 19’ and Brady 17’ or 16’, are wishfully thinking. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 He’s 42. Statistically he shouldn’t even be going right now. He’s played at a high level longer than anyone in NFL history. Great QBs carry bad offenses. He’d no longer that guy...he’s still good enough but of course he’s dropping off. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Yin-Yang said: There’s some drop off, I’d say. Not a ton and not as much as some think, IMO. I’ve seen Brady operate with similar circumstances (2013 is the big one) and the same comments were made then, only difference is Brady’s in uncharted territory as a 42 year old. I think more of a factor than the actual WRs is the chemistry. Sanu got added to the team midseason. Harry spent a lot of time injured. Meyers didn’t get much playtime and was going through camp battling for a roster spot. Dorsett hasn’t been healthy and neither has Edelman. Add in the abyss that is the tight end depth chart and you’ll get this. The NE offense has been a timing offense for a while now and Brady needs to trust in his guys. Seems he only has that trust for Edelman and Dorsett right now and they’re injured. So yeah, anyone who says “he’s done” or something close to that effect ought to look at 2013. But anyone who says there’s no difference in Brady 19’ and Brady 17’ or 16’, are wishfully thinking. Sounds like you are watching too much Michael Irvin because he said “trust your guys” like 10 times and no one else has said that. His guys aren’t open. And they are not good, by any stretch of the imagination. The Sanu trade was terrible. He cannot get separation if his life depended on it, dating back to Atlanta. Dorsett is a below average gadget/speed type of WR. Harry is no where near ready for NFL play. It’s one of the worst WR cores I have seen in recent memory. If I was Tom Brady I’d throw to myself every play. Edited December 10, 2019 by BayRaider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 1 minute ago, sammymvpknight said: He’s 42. Statistically he shouldn’t even be going right now. He’s played at a high level longer than anyone in NFL history. Great QBs carry bad offenses. He’d no longer that guy...he’s still good enough but of course he’s dropping off. Huh? He IS carrying that offense. Literally he is carrying one of the worst offenses I have ever seen. They are 30-32 range without him. This type of post is the reason I made this thread. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soko Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 (edited) 14 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Sounds like you are watching too much Michael Irvin because he said “trust your guys” like 10 times and no one else has said that. You’d be wrong on that assumption, I don’t even know which network employs Irvin (I assume NFLN because they’re the cringiest). It’s not something new or gamechanging. Brady, probably more so than most QBs, operates on trust in the offense. It’s why savvy vets tend to do better here than rookies or Uber-athletes (Moss being an obvious exception, though the offense was quite different then). Getting rid of Gordon was actually a big mistake because he developed a quick rapport with Brady, which most of the better athletes haven’t in NE. Quote His guys aren’t open. And they are not good, by any stretch of the imagination. The Sanu trade was terrible. He cannot get separation if his life depended on it, datinf back to Stlanta. Dorsett is a below average gadget/speed type of WR. Harry is no where near ready for NFL play. It’s one of the worst WR cores I have seen in recent memory. If I was Tom Brady I’d throw to myself every play. And when has NE ever had great receivers? LaFell, Amendola, Hogan, and the likes have never been great (in or outside of NE). What separates them from Harry or Meyers? They were A) usually healthy, and B) veterans who were able to get acclimated to the NE offense and work their chemistry with Brady. Saying they’re just bad across the board is lazy. Edelman and Sanu are good. Dorsett is passable. Harry is talented and Meyers has shown to be a fit here. The issue is that the top 3 aren’t healthy and the bottom 2 lack a ton of the nuances and chemistry. Yes, it’s an underwhelming group of receivers even when healthy, but that was never an excuse before. It’s not as bad as 2013. The rest of the offensive personnel aren’t helping either, sans Thuney and Burkhead. I’m not trying to prop up this WR room. But dismissing their health and inexperience in the NE offense, only to say “they’re just bad” is the type of ESPN-analyzing you accused me of pandering to. Edited December 10, 2019 by Yin-Yang 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsoxsuck05 Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 He’s not good enough to carry them, but he’s good enough to win another ring. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKillerNacho Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 Is he finally starting to drop off? Yes. Is he even close to their main problem? Not even close. He's definitely still good enough to be a starting QB. Even good enough to win another Super Bowl. He's playing better than the stats indicate right now. But he can't do it by himself anymore. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammymvpknight Posted December 10, 2019 Share Posted December 10, 2019 28 minutes ago, BayRaider said: Huh? He IS carrying that offense. Literally he is carrying one of the worst offenses I have ever seen. They are 30-32 range without him. This type of post is the reason I made this thread. You’re being incredibly dramatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted December 10, 2019 Author Share Posted December 10, 2019 6 minutes ago, sammymvpknight said: You’re being incredibly dramatic I’m being incredibly truthful. That offense outside of Brady is disgusting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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