Tom Brady is Not the Problem

[drew39k]

3 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Direct sources on anything that remotely says what you were suggesting? And no, absence from OTAs isn’t a direct source.

It doesn’t even have to be direct, I’d take any source or insider quote that says Brady’s work ethic has fallen off.

I mean, if you dont see how someone who was once mister no days off now doesnt participate in OTAs hasnt lost any of his work ethic then I'm not really sure what to tell you.

He himself, has said that he values more time with the family and used that as a reason for bailing on OTAs. That's coming from his own mouth.

Up until 2 years ago Brady dedicates that time and energy into making himself and his teammates better. He received untold amounts of praise for that effort and dedication. He doesnt do that any more. 

 

[Soko]

12 minutes ago, drew39k said:

I mean, if you dont see how someone who was once mister no days off now doesnt participate in OTAs hasnt lost any of his work ethic then I'm not really sure what to tell you.

He himself, has said that he values more time with the family and used that as a reason for bailing on OTAs. That's coming from his own mouth.

Up until 2 years ago Brady dedicates that time and energy into making himself and his teammates better. He received untold amounts of praise for that effort and dedication. He doesnt do that any more. 

 

So, no sources? Just him missing OTAs? 10-4. 

[drew39k]

1 minute ago, Yin-Yang said:

So, no sources? Just him missing OTAs? 10-4. 

So, Tom Brady saying he is focusing less on football and more on family, then proceeded to bail on OTAs isn't a source in your book?

Player 1 is first in last out, never misses a practice, doesnt take days off, organizes group training sessions during the offseason

Player 2 states he wants to spend more time with his family and less on football. Skips out on all non mandatory training.

No difference in work effort....?

10-4.

Enjoy the blinders bro

[Soko]

Just now, drew39k said:

So, Tom Brady saying he is focusing less on football and more on family, then proceeded to bail on OTAs isn't a source in your book?

If it’s such common knowledge, you’d have no issue directing me to a statement that equates “I’m focusing less on football”.

Just now, drew39k said:

Player 1 is first in last out

Again, assuming you can produce something that says otherwise?

Just now, drew39k said:

, never misses a practice,

Hasn’t missed a practice still, to my knowledge. 

Just now, drew39k said:

doesnt take days off,

So just OTAs?

Just now, drew39k said:

organizes group training sessions during the offseason

He did that this offseason too.

Just now, drew39k said:

Player 2 states he wants to spend more time with his family and less on football. Skips out on all non mandatory training.

So just OTAs...

Just now, drew39k said:

No difference in work effort....?

10-4.

Enjoy the blinders bro

You made a statement and have nothing to go on, all good.

[ChazStandard]

To all the people saying Brady is declining, can I ask how? I’m watching the games, and I’m seeing pressure in 42 year olds face, and he weaves in the pocket, like he always does, and throws a dime down the seam, like he always does, and they’re being dropped. Or he has to throw the ball away because no ones open. When guys are open, he’s hitting them. How is he physically worse than last year?

Seriously asking, I don’t see it.

[diamondbull424]

Disagree with the point of the OP. What I’ve seen from Brady in games is someone that’s lost and breaking down mentally. I see a QB that is feeling ghosts and getting the ball out before he needs to and guys uncovering right as he launches a non-catchable pass to make sure that HE doesn’t get plastered.

I won’t go so far as to say he’s selfish, but watching Brady has reminded me of Joe Flacco with the Broncos. The tools they have in NE (Harry, Sanu, Edelman, Michel, White) aren’t bad. Some things are schematics, but Brady has been getting the ball out, especially in these last few games with Wynn back, before he needs to. Sure he might have to take a few hits in so doing, but the play will be made. Brady is putting himself over those hits and for this particular offense that isn’t quite as quick strike in its dink&dunk approach as in the past, thats what the offense needs. Put in a rookie that can buy some time with his feet or stay in the pocket and take some hits and I think this Patriots offense sees definite improvements.

Brady being the same only means that he needs an elite threat such as the GOAT TE (Gronk) or the GOAT WR (Moss) to look like the GOAT QB. Before Moss/Gronk he was not viewed as the GOAT, just a winner. So if he’s the same guy (and he does look the same to me as well) I think this says more about Brady’s level as a QB. Not to mention the cheating aspect that he has obviously benefited from schematically. But this season, he’s definitely a big part of the problem. Which isn’t to say that there are not OTHER problems as well.

[ChazStandard]

3 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Disagree with the point of the OP. What I’ve seen from Brady in games is someone that’s lost and breaking down mentally. I see a QB that is feeling ghosts and getting the ball out before he needs to and guys uncovering right as he launches a non-catchable pass to make sure that HE doesn’t get plastered.

I won’t go so far as to say he’s selfish, but watching Brady has reminded me of Joe Flacco with the Broncos. The tools they have in NE (Harry, Sanu, Edelman, Michel, White) aren’t bad. Some things are schematics, but Brady has been getting the ball out, especially in these last few games with Wynn back, before he needs to. Sure he might have to take a few hits in so doing, but the play will be made. Brady is putting himself over those hits and for this particular offense that isn’t quite as quick strike in its dink&dunk approach as in the past, thats what the offense needs. Put in a rookie that can buy some time with his feet or stay in the pocket and take some hits and I think this Patriots offense sees definite improvements.

Brady being the same only means that he needs an elite threat such as the GOAT TE (Gronk) or the GOAT WR (Moss) to look like the GOAT QB. Before Moss/Gronk he was not viewed as the GOAT, just a winner. So if he’s the same guy (and he does look the same to me as well) I think this says more about Brady’s level as a QB. Not to mention the cheating aspect that he has obviously benefited from schematically. But this season, he’s definitely a big part of the problem. Which isn’t to say that there are not OTHER problems as well.

IF Brady's "feeling ghosts", he's doing in the less than 2 seconds he has before protection breaks down. I actually think you've  not seen any Patriots games, or maybe you just have apre-conceived notion and you're seeing what you want to see.

I doubt you can find any film of Brady in the way you're describing. (The idea Brady needs elite targets to be effective is asinine, over his career Brady has had considerably less talent on offense than his contemporaries).

[Elky]

29 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Disagree with the point of the OP. What I’ve seen from Brady in games is someone that’s lost and breaking down mentally. I see a QB that is feeling ghosts and getting the ball out before he needs to and guys uncovering right as he launches a non-catchable pass to make sure that HE doesn’t get plastered.

I won’t go so far as to say he’s selfish, but watching Brady has reminded me of Joe Flacco with the Broncos. The tools they have in NE (Harry, Sanu, Edelman, Michel, White) aren’t bad. Some things are schematics, but Brady has been getting the ball out, especially in these last few games with Wynn back, before he needs to. Sure he might have to take a few hits in so doing, but the play will be made. Brady is putting himself over those hits and for this particular offense that isn’t quite as quick strike in its dink&dunk approach as in the past, thats what the offense needs. Put in a rookie that can buy some time with his feet or stay in the pocket and take some hits and I think this Patriots offense sees definite improvements.

Brady being the same only means that he needs an elite threat such as the GOAT TE (Gronk) or the GOAT WR (Moss) to look like the GOAT QB. Before Moss/Gronk he was not viewed as the GOAT, just a winner. So if he’s the same guy (and he does look the same to me as well) I think this says more about Brady’s level as a QB. Not to mention the cheating aspect that he has obviously benefited from schematically. But this season, he’s definitely a big part of the problem. Which isn’t to say that there are not OTHER problems as well.

The amount of stupidity in this post is astounding.

The weapons we have on offense do indeed suck. Edelman leads the league in drops. Sanu has been a waste of a second round pick. Michel has literally zero big play ability and is a complete nonfactor in the passing game. Harry was benched against Houston and only saw two snaps against KC. Meyers has no grasp of the route tree. Our offense effectively is running without any tight ends.

Your mental health needs to be checked if you honestly think Jarrett Stidham or any rookie would improve our offense. Stidham is so bad he got benched against NYJ...when it was garbage time!

Brady won MVP in 2010, which was the season we replaced Randy Moss with Deion Branch about a quarter into the season and Gronk was only a rookie. Three of his four Super Bowl MVPs came without Moss or Gronk, and that includes the comeback in SB51.

Saying he's benefited from "cheating" completely invalidates you argument altogether.

I'm not going to say Brady is free from all criticism, but I shutter at the thought of this offense without him. He's literally carrying it while it's kicking and screaming.

Edited December 11, 2019 by Elky

[lolsurebro]

49 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

Disagree with the point of the OP. What I’ve seen from Brady in games is someone that’s lost and breaking down mentally. I see a QB that is feeling ghosts and getting the ball out before he needs to and guys uncovering right as he launches a non-catchable pass to make sure that HE doesn’t get plastered.

I won’t go so far as to say he’s selfish, but watching Brady has reminded me of Joe Flacco with the Broncos. The tools they have in NE (Harry, Sanu, Edelman, Michel, White) aren’t bad. Some things are schematics, but Brady has been getting the ball out, especially in these last few games with Wynn back, before he needs to. Sure he might have to take a few hits in so doing, but the play will be made. Brady is putting himself over those hits and for this particular offense that isn’t quite as quick strike in its dink&dunk approach as in the past, thats what the offense needs. Put in a rookie that can buy some time with his feet or stay in the pocket and take some hits and I think this Patriots offense sees definite improvements.

Brady being the same only means that he needs an elite threat such as the GOAT TE (Gronk) or the GOAT WR (Moss) to look like the GOAT QB. Before Moss/Gronk he was not viewed as the GOAT, just a winner. So if he’s the same guy (and he does look the same to me as well) I think this says more about Brady’s level as a QB. Not to mention the cheating aspect that he has obviously benefited from schematically. But this season, he’s definitely a big part of the problem. Which isn’t to say that there are not OTHER problems as well.

It's evident you are not watching the games.

[MWil23]

I think that there are a variety of factors with TB12:

1. His OL isn't great

2. His weapons are lousy

3. His accuracy and anticipation is just a step slow...the reaction time isn't what it was 2+ years ago

I think that he can still gear up and be dangerous presnap recognition, sliding protection, etc., but the pinpoint accuracy for RAC opportunities for WR isn't there, and they don't have a TE that can cause the running/passing game mismatches either.

[Malik]

Brady's definitely part of the problem even though he's not the problem. There are maybe a half dozen QBs you could switch into that Patriots offense that would perform better than Tom has played this season. People are being a tad hyperbolic about the lack of talent on offense. There's maybe 1/4 of the league that was worst options.

[diamondbull424]

5 hours ago, ChazStandard said:

IF Brady's "feeling ghosts", he's doing in the less than 2 seconds he has before protection breaks down. I actually think you've  not seen any Patriots games, or maybe you just have apre-conceived notion and you're seeing what you want to see.

I doubt you can find any film of Brady in the way you're describing. (The idea Brady needs elite targets to be effective is asinine, over his career Brady has had considerably less talent on offense than his contemporaries).

I’ve watched three games this season and during the telecasts they’ve shown examples of Tom Brady getting 3.5+ second in the pocket and rushing the ball out. They’ll show receivers uncover as Brady gets the ball out just a split second before with no crazy pressure. If he had waited he would’ve been blasted, but the receiver and the play would’ve been completed. I’ve seen numerous examples of that against the Chiefs and Texans.

In terms of elite targets. I’ve stated that he’s always had elite targets when he’s looked like a GOAT QB. Perhaps you and the rest of the Patriots fans are assuming this to mean he needs these guys to look like a top 3-5 QB in any given season which I never stated. But particularly his best seasons he’s typically had some top shelf elite weapons in either Gronk or Moss, both who could be argued as GOATs at their position in some capacity. Moss doesn’t dethrone Rice but his peak offensive impact could be argued as being better than Rice considering he’s the common denominator on the two most offensively explosive teams in NFL history (to this point) in the 07 Patriots and the 98 Vikings.

I digress. All top 3-5 QBs in a given season seemingly make no names into stars. Edelman with Brady, Big Ben had Brown and Wallace. Peyton had Stokley and Clark. Etc. Wilson with... everyone. But the 50 TDs or the crazy efficiency were done with a GOAT weapon. Is Brady better than Brees or Wilson? I don’t think so. He’s just had a GOAT weapon that has propped up his bulk stats. He’s been on a team that has won SBs by virtue of multiple spygate infractions. So his GOAT seasons were inflated by GOAT weapons and GOAT cheating.

But I am definitely a Brady “hater” (like no lie, not even sarcasm). So take my words with a grain of salt. I find the Patriots fans to generally be pretty cool on here. I just don’t agree with that teams ethics and I don’t believe that much of those accomplishments during this dynasty should be viewed in the same light as the peers elsewhere in the league.

Brady is a top 3-5 QB in his time in the league. That’s as far as I am willing to go. Beyond that I see asterisk next to his name and accomplishments.

But I further digress. I will drop the point of my post as I am clearly biased in this particular instance. Especially in light of recent news.

[diamondbull424]

4 hours ago, Malik said:

Brady's definitely part of the problem even though he's not the problem. There are maybe a half dozen QBs you could switch into that Patriots offense that would perform better than Tom has played this season. People are being a tad hyperbolic about the lack of talent on offense. There's maybe 1/4 of the league that was worst options.

Agree with this completely. This is what I was trying to say in my post, however I’m a Brady hater so I can’t post on this topic as “cleanly” as I would prefer. But yes, I believe if you insert (in no order):

Jackson, Mahomes, Watson, Wilson, Jimmy G, Rodgers, Cousins, Murray, Stafford, Brees, and Prescott.

Making Brady still a top 15 QB in the league. Which is impressive at his age. But he’s right there with Matt Ryan as guys I feel would look similar within the Patriots offensive scheme. More game manager that won’t make mistakes, but also won’t create plays out of nothing. A few of the above names you could argue as Brady potentially being better, but that’s how I would view it.

[lolsurebro]

11 minutes ago, diamondbull424 said:

I’ve watched three games this season and during the telecasts they’ve shown examples of Tom Brady getting 3.5+ second in the pocket and rushing the ball out. They’ll show receivers uncover as Brady gets the ball out just a split second before with no crazy pressure. If he had waited he would’ve been blasted, but the receiver and the play would’ve been completed. I’ve seen numerous examples of that against the Chiefs and Texans.

In terms of elite targets. I’ve stated that he’s always had elite targets when he’s looked like a GOAT QB. Perhaps you and the rest of the Patriots fans are assuming this to mean he needs these guys to look like a top 3-5 QB in any given season which I never stated. But particularly his best seasons he’s typically had some top shelf elite weapons in either Gronk or Moss, both who could be argued as GOATs at their position in some capacity. Moss doesn’t dethrone Rice but his peak offensive impact could be argued as being better than Rice considering he’s the common denominator on the two most offensively explosive teams in NFL history (to this point) in the 07 Patriots and the 98 Vikings.

I digress. All top 3-5 QBs in a given season seemingly make no names into stars. Edelman with Brady, Big Ben had Brown and Wallace. Peyton had Stokley and Clark. Etc. Wilson with... everyone. But the 50 TDs or the crazy efficiency were done with a GOAT weapon. Is Brady better than Brees or Wilson? I don’t think so. He’s just had a GOAT weapon that has propped up his bulk stats. He’s been on a team that has won SBs by virtue of multiple spygate infractions. So his GOAT seasons were inflated by GOAT weapons and GOAT cheating.

But I am definitely a Brady “hater” (like no lie, not even sarcasm). So take my words with a grain of salt. I find the Patriots fans to generally be pretty cool on here. I just don’t agree with that teams ethics and I don’t believe that much of those accomplishments during this dynasty should be viewed in the same light as the peers elsewhere in the league.

Brady is a top 3-5 QB in his time in the league. That’s as far as I am willing to go. Beyond that I see asterisk next to his name and accomplishments.

But I further digress. I will drop the point of my post as I am clearly biased in this particular instance. Especially in light of recent news.

On the contrary, I have seen that Brady averages 2-2.5 seconds before protection breaks down and he has to throw.

Someone on Reddit did a breakdown of every pass from a recent (Texans?) game and found that Brady whiffed 3 that he was responsible for. One missed opportunity where he wasn't looking at an open option (though I can't remember who it was. I wanna say Doresett?) and the rest was essentially on the receiving corp in some fashion.

A lot of the blame falls on McDaniels as well. Something that a lot of playcaller-fans are starting to point out and explain. Recent press conference he essentially admits to not scheming things for Harry.

[rocky_rams]

5 hours ago, Elky said:

The amount of stupidity in this post is astounding.

The weapons we have on offense do indeed suck. Edelman leads the league in drops. Sanu has been a waste of a second round pick. Michel has literally zero big play ability and is a complete nonfactor in the passing game. Harry was benched against Houston and only saw two snaps against KC. Meyers has no grasp of the route tree. Our offense effectively is running without any tight ends.

Your mental health needs to be checked if you honestly think Jarrett Stidham or any rookie would improve our offense. Stidham is so bad he got benched against NYJ...when it was garbage time!

Brady won MVP in 2010, which was the season we replaced Randy Moss with Deion Branch about a quarter into the season and Gronk was only a rookie. Three of his four Super Bowl MVPs came without Moss or Gronk, and that includes the comeback in SB51.

Saying he's benefited from "cheating" completely invalidates you argument altogether.

I'm not going to say Brady is free from all criticism, but I shutter at the thought of this offense without him. He's literally carrying it while it's kicking and screaming.

Lol now I see how you’d respond if someone criticizes your QB 

If youre going to attack almost every QB in the league, better be ready to defend yours.  

Your argument would’ve been more sound without the middle school insults