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bucsfan333

"Forget the draft, go win games"

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33 minutes ago, indifference said:

Due to an elite defense. Which this team does not have and wont be barring massive changes. 

In the meantime he does not play winning football. He’s the same qb he was at FSU and his freshman year is a proven fluke.

The 2016 Bucs went 9-7 with Jameis Winston without an elite defense and that’s a playoff record in most years. This Bucs team doesn’t have an elite defense and can do the same this year in terms of record.

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2 minutes ago, CP3MVP said:

The 2016 Bucs went 9-7 with Jameis Winston without an elite defense and that’s a playoff record in most years. This Bucs team doesn’t have an elite defense and can do the same this year in terms of record.

Could've made a 35 yard FG and we'd be playing for 10-6 and a potential playoff spot.

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3 minutes ago, CP3MVP said:

The 2016 Bucs went 9-7 with Jameis Winston without an elite defense and that’s a playoff record in most years. This Bucs team doesn’t have an elite defense and can do the same this year in terms of record.

No playoffs even at 9-7 if we win out. I want bucs fans to not accept mediocrity. we are close to playoffs but we turn the ball over too much. If our qb doesnt throw pick sixes vs Niners, Giants, Titans etc we potentially can win those games. 

2016 bucs D was 12th ranked in DVOA not elite but better than given credit for but good enough that year. regardless, i dont think winston is capable of winning a super bowl. hell he hast even proved to put 3-4 stretches consecutively in the regular season there’s no reason to believe he could do that in the post season against good teams. a playoff birth we’re probably stuck with jameis (thank god) 

Any average qb could light it up with our weapons

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3 minutes ago, indifference said:

No playoffs even at 9-7 if we win out. I want bucs fans to not accept mediocrity. we are close to playoffs but we turn the ball over too much. If our qb doesnt throw pick sixes vs Niners, Giants, Titans etc we potentially can win those games. 

2016 bucs D was 12th ranked in DVOA not elite but better than given credit for but good enough that year. regardless, i dont think winston is capable of winning a super bowl. hell he hast even proved to put 3-4 stretches consecutively in the regular season there’s no reason to believe he could do that in the post season against good teams. a playoff birth we’re probably stuck with jameis (thank god) 

Any average qb could light it up with our weapons

I know the Bucs are out of the playoffs, I’m just saying a 9-7 record would make it in most seasons.

I just don’t understand your logic, the Bucs can go 9-7 with Jameis winston(despite zero Run game, below average Line, and questionable defense) but winning 10 games is out of the question? 

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29 minutes ago, CP3MVP said:

I know the Bucs are out of the playoffs, I’m just saying a 9-7 record would make it in most seasons.

I just don’t understand your logic, the Bucs can go 9-7 with Jameis winston(despite zero Run game, below average Line, and questionable defense) but winning 10 games is out of the question? 

The subject of Jameis is extremely polarizing.  There really isn t a lot of middle ground within the fan base.  

My opinion, as long as Arians is here, Jameis is going nowhere.  I find it hard to believe any HC would want to jettison his QB who has assisted in a top 3 scoring offense with 3 games to go.  

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46 minutes ago, CP3MVP said:

I know the Bucs are out of the playoffs, I’m just saying a 9-7 record would make it in most seasons.

I just don’t understand your logic, the Bucs can go 9-7 with Jameis winston(despite zero Run game, below average Line, and questionable defense) but winning 10 games is out of the question? 

My point is 9-7 aint good enough for a post season. This will be twice under the Winston era that’s occurred. It aint good enough because you cannot win games consistently with a qb like Winston. Sunday was the first time in his career he won three games in a row.

The Bucs do not have a below average line. In fact they lead the league in seconds to throw in the NFL. Run blocking we arent good at thanks to Dotson and Smith (both guys are graded middle of pack this year.

My logic is if we didnt have a retarded qb that makes DUMB decisions and doesnt put his team beyond most of the time we’d have a better shot at the playoffs. It should not be hard to put up points when you have arguably the best WR duo in the league. 

Edited by indifference

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5 minutes ago, indifference said:

My point is 9-7 aint good enough for a post season. This will be twice under the Winston era that’s occurred. It aint good enough because you cannot win games consistently with a qb like Winston. Sunday was the first time in his career he won three games in a row.

The Bucs do not have a below average line. In fact they lead the league in seconds to throw in the NFL. Run blocking we arent good at thanks to Dotson and Smith (both guys are graded middle of pack this year.

My logic is if we didnt have a retarded qb that makes DUMB decisions and doesnt put his team beyond most of the time we’d have a better shot at the playoffs. It should not be hard to put up points when you have arguably the best WR duo in the league. 

Almost every  year a 9-7 team goes to the playoffs, what are you talking about it not being good enough for the postseason? The NFC is just loaded in 2019, that’s not normal. Sunday was not the first time in his career he won 3 games in a row either, they won 5 in a row in 2016.

Football Outsiders isn’t perfect but they rank the Bucs offensive line 23rd this year. I don’t watch every game like you, but every time I see Donovan smith he’s either ok or just terrible and that’s supposed to be Winston’s blind side protecter.

If the bucs Defense wasn’t horrible against the giants or Seahawks they are 8-5 right now and this whole narrative changes 

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Im in the boat to draft someone and pay Winston.   I don't necessarily want Winston but we don't really have a choice.  The only FA QB I would be ok with getting is Ryan Tannehill and I highly doubt he goes anywhere and is re-signed by the Titans (also he is likely to regress to some extent).  The problem is we can get a QB that is "safer" with the ball like Mariota, Andy Dalton (to a certain extent) or someone else but you will still have the same problems just in a different manner.  We will be talking about how the QB can only win with a great defense and doesn't have the skills to win in a shootout or come from behind.     Jameis is the opposite he has the traits to win in a shootout or come from behind but he doesn't because he turns the ball over too much.

 

You also have to think about the QB learning the offense.  Jameis has been in the offense for a year and is leading the team with a top offense (not defense).   If we get a new QB we will be talking about a middling QB with a middle of the pack offense that doesn't utilize his weapons.
 

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7 minutes ago, CP3MVP said:

Almost every  year a 9-7 team goes to the playoffs, what are you talking about it not being good enough for the postseason? The NFC is just loaded in 2019, that’s not normal. Sunday was not the first time in his career he won 3 games in a row either, they won 5 in a row in 2016.

Football Outsiders isn’t perfect but they rank the Bucs offensive line 23rd this year. I don’t watch every game like you, but every time I see Donovan smith he’s either ok or just terrible and that’s supposed to be Winston’s blind side protecter.

If the bucs Defense wasn’t horrible against the giants or Seahawks they are 8-5 right now and this whole narrative changes 

There is no way around it the Offensive line is not good.  I dunno where the stat came from that he has the most time to throw the ball but if you really watch the games you can clearly see he doesn't have much time and he is one of the most sacked QBs in the league and most hits too.

Like you said FO and PFF have the Bucs O-line ranked in the bottom tier rank 20-25    

 

EDIT:  I just looked it up Jameis has been hit 93 times 4th most and 41 sacks is 8th most.

 

Edited by sryan66611

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2 minutes ago, CP3MVP said:

Almost every  year a 9-7 team goes to the playoffs, what are you talking about it not being good enough for the postseason? The NFC is just loaded in 2019, that’s not normal. Sunday was not the first time in his career he won 3 games in a row either, they won 5 in a row in 2016.

Football Outsiders isn’t perfect but they rank the Bucs offensive line 23rd this year. I don’t watch every game like you, but every time I see Donovan smith he’s either ok or just terrible and that’s supposed to be Winston’s blind side protecter.

If the bucs Defense wasn’t horrible against the giants or Seahawks they are 8-5 right now and this whole narrative changes 

That s pretty accurate on D Smith.  Almost unbelievably, the back up tackles are significantly worse than the starters.  Th Bucs oline doesnt  give a QB  consistent pocket, but more so a narrowing lane  When D Smith was drafted, they backed themselves in a corner.  The yr prior Lovie cut Penn, and the signing of Anthony Collins was  a complete disaster.  Smith was one of the better tackles as it turned out in a weak *** tackle draft. 

I think they wanted to draft Cody Ford, but Buffalo got ahead of them.  They drafted SMB instead.

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20 minutes ago, CP3MVP said:

Almost every  year a 9-7 team goes to the playoffs, what are you talking about it not being good enough for the postseason? The NFC is just loaded in 2019, that’s not normal. Sunday was not the first time in his career he won 3 games in a row either, they won 5 in a row in 2016.

Football Outsiders isn’t perfect but they rank the Bucs offensive line 23rd this year. I don’t watch every game like you, but every time I see Donovan smith he’s either ok or just terrible and that’s supposed to be Winston’s blind side protecter.

If the bucs Defense wasn’t horrible against the giants or Seahawks they are 8-5 right now and this whole narrative changes 

9-7 isnt a lock for the playoffs. I just looked back from the past 5 seasons in the NFC and a 9-7 record just isn’t no matter how many times you say it. Yes it happens but its not every year thing.

smith 28/62 out of his position

marpet 11/63

cappa 42/63

dotson 27/62

those are OL grades that does not say bad OL at all. We arent great by any means but we do at least pass protect at an above average rate.

Edited by indifference

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15 minutes ago, sryan66611 said:

There is no way around it the Offensive line is not good.  I dunno where the stat came from that he has the most time to throw the ball but if you really watch the games you can clearly see he doesn't have much time and he is one of the most sacked QBs in the league and most hits too.

Like you said FO and PFF have the Bucs O-line ranked in the bottom tier rank 20-25    

 

EDIT:  I just looked it up Jameis has been hit 93 times 4th most and 41 sacks is 8th most.

 

lot of those sacks are on jameis though for not throwing the ball away, holding the ball too long. Too many games this year he ran into sacks too. really its a group effort because both dotson/smith have got owned this year in certain games

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20 minutes ago, indifference said:

lot of those sacks are on jameis though for not throwing the ball away, holding the ball too long. Too many games this year he ran into sacks too. really its a group effort because both dotson/smith have got owned this year in certain games

Ok but the seasons prior jameis played the most he has ever been sacked was 35 times in 2016.     Now he is above 40 with 3 games to play so that's on Winston??   I know some of those sacks are on Winston clearly but he doesn't have much time to get the ball away.  This dude is ducking and dodging away from sacks at least 5 times a game.    So you can say he held the ball too long for those sacks but I'm sure he has gotten out of plenty of sacks that would have been recorded so that point is moot.   That can go both ways if you discredit him for holding onto the ball too long and taking sacks you have to give him credit for all the times he has maneuvered to get out of the would be sack.

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39 minutes ago, indifference said:

9-7 isnt a lock for the playoffs. I just looked back from the past 5 seasons in the NFC and a 9-7 record just isn’t no matter how many times you say it. Yes it happens but its not every year thing.

smith 28/62 out of his position

marpet 11/63

cappa 42/63

dotson 27/62

those are OL grades that does not say bad OL at all. We arent great by any means but we do at least pass protect at an above average rate.

1.)I wasn’t talking about just the NFC I meant nfl as a whole. For example

Last year a 9-7 Eagles team made the playoffs in the NFC

The previous season 2 9 win teams(Bills/Titans) made the playoffs in the AFC

In 2016 a 9 Win Lions team made the playoffs in the NFC

In 2015  9 win Redskins And Texans team made the playoffs.

So it happens fairly regularly. But let’s get to that point, they can win 9 games with Winston but not 10? And it’s not like it’s some loaded team. Evans and Godwin are great. The Oline is average at BEST, the backs are bottom 3 in the league. The secondary while improved is still in the bottom 1/3 of the league. They finally got a real kicker for the first time in his career.

2.)Wouldn’t it be better to judge the line on how they perform as a whole instead of individual members? 

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