GDT Week 15: Denver Broncos @ Kansas City Chiefs: Drewcember is here!

[germ-x]

17 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

They kept trying to set up the deep shot (I assume to Courtland) in the first half but the free rusher seemed to ruin it every time. In hindsight, a couple easy targets early would have been good. I don't know, if that's the big takeaway today just feels like very little was learned or gained. 

I would agree.  Games like that in that type of weather are difficult to assess, IMO.

But the use of Sutton does irk me.  I get trying to set up a deep ball, but you don’t have to basically use him as a decoy for the first 25 minutes of a game, especially in one that you’re struggling in offensively. Now, maybe Lock made some poor decisions, I didn’t pay close enough attention, but considering the other receiving threats on this team....Sutton should’ve been far more involved early on. 

[AKRNA]

29 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Having trouble figuring out what I’m supposed to be overreacting to based on today’s game, but maybe someone can point me in the right direction  We know where upgrades are needed. One thing that stood out was how awful of a job the receivers did handling the elements. 

I'm kinda with you on that. The NFL still hasn't posted the game but I've been able to see a bit of it. 

I don't really think we learned anything. Well, maybe we learned that if we go into Arrowhead in December in a heavy snowstorm, terribly depleted on the OL and DL with a rookie QB in his third start we probably won't do well. But, we already knew that didn't we?

[BroncoBruin]

I...didn't think Lock was THAT bad. 3 points is never good, of course. And the bad decisions snowballed (heh) a bit when the game was out of reach, but his OL and WRs did nothing for him and he looked fairly composed most of the game. In a vacuum, it was a poor showing for a QB but in the context of what a ****storm the game turned out to be, I did think there were some encouraging takeaways.  

[germ-x]

13 minutes ago, Broncofan said:

A few thoughts:

1.   We're just not that talented.   It's that simple.   

2.  Our OL has 1 guy we have as a foundation piece - Risner.   Leary is aging, injured, and only going to decline.   Bolles is a sunk cost, but not a guy we should pin any future hopes on.  By all means he'll be on our roster - but we really need to plan for a T and IOL at a minimum from Day 1-2.   Because we could very well still need to find 1-2 more starters from FA.   James has the skills and talent, but I'd almost hope an offseason scope reveals a missed injury.   The alternative is just disheartening.  But either way, James is expensive for 2020-21, so we need to plan for life without either T by 2021.    This is a class to hit T and IOL hard in Day 1-2 (plus WR).   

3.  WR-wise, I have nothing against Hamilton & Patrick - but they're JAG's.   That's the issue.  They should be 5th-6th WR's on good squads.   Right now, they're our 2nd/3rd.  A Rd2 pick, and a mid-level FA signing, would do wonders for us.

4.  As for Lock, once he lost Fant, it was super-easy to defend the pass game, and game script of being down 12-0 and then 15-3, made it super easy for KC to defend us.   Lock was bad today.   But TBH - that's exactly what we'd expect from a rookie.      Remember, I'm still a guy who had serious concerns if Lock's weaknesses could be fixed to make him successful long-term (footwork, happy feet with pressure, read progression, and keeping eyes up with pressure).    But, to be perfectly clear - nothing today changes the fact Lock's actually further along for his weaknesses and preseason progress would have suggested.    He had a bad day.  TBH, this what I expected to see @HOU and @KC - @HOU was a pleasant surprise.   Matt Waldman's analysis showed that HOU didn't take advantage of his weaknesses - but today, KC did.  It happens.

The bad news is that the mantra of us not being nearly as good as our best game held true today.  The reverse still applies, though - Lock's not as bad as he played today, just like he wasn't the anointed confirmed savior last week after an impressive performance.    The same holds true for our team.   The reality is that our team has overperformed our actual talent level.  And to be clear, that's a feather in the coaching staff's direction.   We have no business beating good teams with the talent we have, but we have, and we've come very close other weeks.  Again, credit preparation and the results of our coaches getting the team to buy in, and play hard until results have backed it up. 

But until we get more young talent in our key weak areas (because we need young talent to sustain the progress made so far), it's a mirage to believe we're going to catch KC, or the AFC contenders.  But we're still on the right track.  Today just showed it's a lot further away than last week's heady play suggested.  Nothing wrong with that, we're still miles ahead of where we were last year, just more work needs to be done on both ends of the ball.

I love Locks feel in the pocket through 3 games and the stage clearly doesn’t bother him....those are 2 HUGE qualities in being a reliable/respectable QB.  

[BroncoBruin]

2 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

I'm kinda with you on that. The NFL still hasn't posted the game but I've been able to see a bit of it. 

I don't really think we learned anything. Well, maybe we learned that if we go into Arrowhead in December in a heavy snowstorm, terribly depleted on the OL and DL with a rookie QB in his third start we probably won't do well. But, we already knew that didn't we?

Agreed. It is a shame to see the elements kinda throw a wrench into one of our last few opportunities to see young guys grow this year.  Hardly anyone on the team looked comfortable in the snow. 

[Broncofan]

15 minutes ago, germ-x said:

I love Locks feel in the pocket through 3 games and the stage clearly doesn’t bother him....those are 2 HUGE qualities in being a reliable/respectable QB.  

Yeah the one thing I didn't see from his college tape that I see now is that Lock has much better feel for pressure, and when to step up or start to get out of the pocket (he needs to work on keeping eyes up with movement longer, but knowing when to step up / get out is huge - as a contrast. Daniel Jones' fumbles are because he doesn't feel pressure soon enough).  That's a huge improvement.  I do believe Scangarello's worked hard on his footwork and timing and it shows.  

What we saw in HOU was that his first read was there, and he delivered the ball on time (it helped a TON that there was no pressure, and our run game was effective).  Today, our run game was non existent, and the first look was covered.  Lock couldn't adjust.  THAT is normal for pretty much every rookie.   Now, it has to get better, as teams will learn his tendencies, and our O's with Lock in there.    But it's pretty iffy to hold today, or even 2 more rookie-struggle games, against him, for what he's already shown.   He has clear flaws.  But he's also made progress in areas this year that were unexpected, and the arm talent is simply undeniable.  On the other hand, the comps to Mahomes arm talent were overblown - we certainly saw what Mahomes level arm talent looks like, and it was impressive.  But Lock's got more arm talent than anyone we've ever seen since PFM (and frankly way more than PFM 2015 version lol).  Plenty of reason to have hope for 2020+ at QB.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Broncofan

[AKRNA]

18 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Agreed. It is a shame to see the elements kinda throw a wrench into one of our last few opportunities to see young guys grow this year.  Hardly anyone on the team looked comfortable in the snow. 

Yeah, games like that the best Trenches team usually wins. Just mudder stuff. Thats what stuck out to me. The Chiefs OL had their way today. Again though, hardly unexpected. 

two of our DT's today were undrafted rookies, just brought up from the PS. 

Like you said, pretty tough to take anything from this game.

[Cutler06]

1 hour ago, BroncoBruin said:

Having trouble figuring out what I’m supposed to be overreacting to based on today’s game, but maybe someone can point me in the right direction  We know where upgrades are needed. One thing that stood out was how awful of a job the receivers did handling the elements. 

Well, did anyone really expect a victory ?? I agree our offense, yet again, was underwhelming and our receivers didn't seem as prepared as KC's appeared to be. In the long run a win would have been more devastating to our draft position (I know, we're building a culture) just as the HOU win.  

[BroncoBruin]

3 minutes ago, AKRNA said:

Yeah, games like that the best Trenches team usually wins. Just mudder stuff. Thats what stuck out to me. The Chiefs OL had their way today. Again though, hardly unexpected. 

two of our DT's today were undrafted rookies, just brought up from the PS. 

Like you said, pretty tough to take anything from this game.

Had no idea who 92 for us was until I looked up the roster in the second half. Naturally, he was getting blown off the ball consistently. 

[AKRNA]

8 minutes ago, BroncoBruin said:

Had no idea who 92 for us was until I looked up the roster in the second half. Naturally, he was getting blown off the ball consistently. 

There ya go! We did learn something. Our PS guys aren't quite ready for the NFL yet.

Oops, we knew that too didn't we? 

 

[French Fan]

What did we learn yesterday?
Should we prefer Garret Bolles penalties or Wilkinson leaving the opponent free constantly?
Without a decent line you can't hope for much.
Hamilton has been the target 8 times for 2 receptions. For me it's over. He does not manage to have the necessary separation with his CB. Bad road runner. Wrong WR slot. At best ST.
I would say better outside of Sutton and maybe Tim Patrick who can be correct there is no one to throw at this position.
Should we still talk about CHJ? The guy no longer wants to play for the Broncos, he lost not 1 but 2 steps. Absolutely not ready on the 1st TD of Hill any liveliness or desire. No desire to see him again next year. Disappointed.
Todd Davis can tackle all day and at night he is slow and does not have the hips to change direction if necessary. Just yesterday KC exploited the weakness of the ILB by sending 15 passes to Kelce ..... too easy.
Von Miller is frustrated with losing? He no longer brings up he lost motivation. Costs too much. It can be useful to trade it to strengthen the offensive line. Will Parks had the opportunity to have a place in the roster next year. Clearly he lost it yesterday.
This match is a big disappointment in the way it was played, not the foreseeable defeat.
The positive point. Fant / Sutton / Lock connections.
6 drops dropped yesterday does not help.

Drew Lock will be the QB franchise even his bad day. His performance yesterday has nothing to do with his abilities. Like Brady this season who has only Edelman, it's complicated when only one player can make a difference.
The last 2 games will not be used to draw conclusions as adversity is likely to be low.

[lomaxgrUK]

I thought yesterday would be rough, so frankly I think the weather helped us going forward. I think Lock would've struggled regardless but now at he has the weather to blame it on for his confidence (it's a legit excuse, obviously).

Clearly, the Tackle situation was the biggest takeaway from the game. Appalling once again. I thought Wilkinson performed as an average/below-average Tackle earlier in the year but his play has fallen off a cliff of late.

[jsthomp2007]

Really think that if Lock is the QBOTF, and I hope he is simply to have that saga over within Denver so we can focus on fixing the rest of the team, however, they really need to build around.  They have to fix the offensive line and have to develop a great, great, great running game.  I wouldn't mind the Home Improvement kids from Wisconsin as a featured back.  I do not see Lindsay as a featured back.  He is great for the team, and fun to watch.  But, I think in a game like yesterday when it's snowing and you are away from home and you are trying to keep Mahomes off the field you need to have a runner who can run it for 30+ carries rather than having Lock throw it 40 times.  

[jsthomp2007]

2 minutes ago, lomaxgrUK said:

I thought yesterday would be rough, so frankly I think the weather helped us going forward. I think Lock would've struggled regardless but now at he has the weather to blame it on for his confidence (it's a legit excuse, obviously).

Clearly, the Tackle situation was the biggest takeaway from the game. Appalling once again. I thought Wilkinson performed as an average/below-average Tackle earlier in the year but his play has fallen off a cliff of late.

Wilkinson is a backup.  That is it.  He is a high-quality backup, I will give him that.  He is good for a game or two per year.  And we need that depth, obviously with James' knee the way it is. 

[French Fan]

3 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Really think that if Lock is the QBOTF, and I hope he is simply to have that saga over within Denver so we can focus on fixing the rest of the team, however, they really need to build around.  They have to fix the offensive line and have to develop a great, great, great running game.  I wouldn't mind the Home Improvement kids from Wisconsin as a featured back.  I do not see Lindsay as a featured back.  He is great for the team, and fun to watch.  But, I think in a game like yesterday when it's snowing and you are away from home and you are trying to keep Mahomes off the field you need to have a runner who can run it for 30+ carries rather than having Lock throw it 40 times.  

RB running 30 times per game no longer exists in the modern NFL era. There is a key split 20 for one and 10/12 for the other.
Most of the time the backs are not identical. A heavy and a speedster. Freeman should be more involved in the game than he is. The injuries at his poste are too numerous to have only one runner.

3 hours ago, jsthomp2007 said:

Wilkinson is a backup.  That is it.  He is a high-quality backup, I will give him that.  He is good for a game or two per year.  And we need that depth, obviously with James' knee the way it is. 

Wikinson as a backup ?  No way. He can play 10/12 snaps by game when a OL is injured but not the entire game. 

Did you see his protection again yesterday? The QB ended up in 1.5s with a defender on it. We even saw at one point he didn't know which player to block, the Chiefs player was even surprised he stopped.

Edited December 16, 2019 by French Fan