How much do you worry about MM?

[pollino14]

Before I start this thread, I do want to say I believe MM is a upper tier coach. I generally am a fan, but have advocated for change in the past either in the FO or coaching staff. 

Onto it, after Sunday's game with Mac's questionable useage of timeouts (something he's done more than once) and his sometimes strange play calling ( abandoning the run to start and then over compensating later if it's working or not) it got me to thinking of some other things Mac does that could be worrysome.

One being reluctance to change, I sometime think he's a bit stubborn. Two years ago, and the beginning of last year we kept trying to be that big play offense when we clearly were best suited to be other wise. That change shoulda happened a long time before it did.

 

I think his in game adjustments are lacking, with him being commuted to do his original plan.

 

I also get frustrated with his loyalty to his staff sometimes , and him leaving his tackles on an island , when they clearly need help.( gotten better at that lately. 

 

The last thing that worries me is philisophically. I think he plays it safe more often than not ( except with his weird useage of TOs) and it causes opponents to be in games where we should've ended it already. I see this more defensively, where at the end of the half the D let's up huge chunks of yards pretty easily resulting in points. Or being up a score and playing off coverage resulting in the offense getting in an advantageous position to score.

 

Those are some things that really worry me about Mac sometimes. I feel when we're in big games when mistakes need to be at a minimal these things could bite us in the rear end.

[Norm]

Do people consider Sean Payton a top coach. He did the same crap with a worse defense and cost them 6. 

Since it's the TO thing that clearly triggered this.

I don't like it but he was trusting his kids. I hope they don't hate that.

[incognito_man]

absolutely zero. He is a top tier coach and we are lucky to have him.

[pollino14]

Did you read the beginning of the post? I said that I view him as a top tier coach, but there are things that worry me. This is not a " fire Mac" thread.

 

 

[Gopackgonerd]

It's hard to worry about a guy who has a Super Bowl under his belt, 3 NFC Championships and 7 years of straight Playoff Appearances, he makes mistakes like every other coach does, he's fine, and will continue to be fine.

[AlexGreen#20]

Just to break it down:

1. Clock Management: I think this is his weakest aspect as a coach. I don't think he's in the bottom 5 of coaches in this aspect, but probably somewhere in the average-below average tier. It's frustrating but it's ultimately a smaller percentage of his responsibilities.

2. Play Calling: I think you're talking about a guy who's an above average play caller. It's very difficult to quantify this. In many ways he's putting his faith and his reputation in Rodgers' hands. That's tough for a guy. He's playing only a part in controlling the run/pass ratio.

3. Stubbornness: This plays a lot into playcalling. In 2017 you have to give your QB free reign to do what he needs to do at the line. You can do what you can to make him come around to your way of thinking, but a lot of times it is Rodgers' decision. The other thing I'll add is that stubbornness is a really tough thing as a coach. Big plays are a way of life, but they also have a lower success rate and luck plays a part in them. How do you discern luck vs schematic problem with a sample size of seven plays?

4. Leaving Tackles on an island is a way of life and something that Rodgers prefers. Often it's the guy you check down to when a QB is under pressure who would not be available if someone additional has to stay in and block. It's a tough balance and I can see why you would defer to Rodgers' judgement and comfort on this.

5. As far as loyalty to staff that's another one that's tough to strike a balance on. Where do you come down on a guy like Capers? All of those decisions are just brutal to make.

 

[Norm]

4 minutes ago, pollino14 said:

Did you read the beginning of the post? I said that I view him as a top tier coach, but there are things that worry me. This is not a " fire Mac" thread.

 

 

I read every word.

I don't over analyze every decision to death. I watch enough football to see nobody is immune.

I don't worry want l about him anymore than I would anyone but BB. What else should I expect? 

[pollino14]

1 minute ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Just to break it down:

1. Clock Management: I think this is his weakest aspect as a coach. I don't think he's in the bottom 5 of coaches in this aspect, but probably somewhere in the average-below average tier. It's frustrating but it's ultimately a smaller percentage of his responsibilities.

2. Play Calling: I think you're talking about a guy who's an above average play caller. It's very difficult to quantify this. In many ways he's putting his faith and his reputation in Rodgers' hands. That's tough for a guy. He's playing only a part in controlling the run/pass ratio.

3. Stubbornness: This plays a lot into playcalling. In 2017 you have to give your QB free reign to do what he needs to do at the line. You can do what you can to make him come around to your way of thinking, but a lot of times it is Rodgers' decision. The other thing I'll add is that stubbornness is a really tough thing as a coach. Big plays are a way of life, but they also have a lower success rate and luck plays a part in them. How do you discern luck vs schematic problem with a sample size of seven plays?

4. Leaving Tackles on an island is a way of life and something that Rodgers prefers. Often it's the guy you check down to when a QB is under pressure who would not be available if someone additional has to stay in and block. It's a tough balance and I can see why you would defer to Rodgers' judgement and comfort on this.

5. As far as loyalty to staff that's another one that's tough to strike a balance on. Where do you come down on a guy like Capers? All of those decisions are just brutal to make.

 

Those are some very good points. In regards to his play calling, there are games where I think he's a genius and puts the team in great positions. Other times, I get confused on why he's calling the games the way he does, and if it's not working how he continues with the plan.

 

As far as the staff, that's a difficult question to answer. There has been times in his tenure where I felt like he's held on to staff longer than he should ( our former ST coach is one to come to mind) Capers imo is an interesting debate where I see both sides.

[squire12]

6 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

Just to break it down:

1. Clock Management: I think this is his weakest aspect as a coach. I don't think he's in the bottom 5 of coaches in this aspect, but probably somewhere in the average-below average tier. It's frustrating but it's ultimately a smaller percentage of his responsibilities.

2. Play Calling: I think you're talking about a guy who's an above average play caller. It's very difficult to quantify this. In many ways he's putting his faith and his reputation in Rodgers' hands. That's tough for a guy. He's playing only a part in controlling the run/pass ratio.

3. Stubbornness: This plays a lot into playcalling. In 2017 you have to give your QB free reign to do what he needs to do at the line. You can do what you can to make him come around to your way of thinking, but a lot of times it is Rodgers' decision. The other thing I'll add is that stubbornness is a really tough thing as a coach. Big plays are a way of life, but they also have a lower success rate and luck plays a part in them. How do you discern luck vs schematic problem with a sample size of seven plays?

4. Leaving Tackles on an island is a way of life and something that Rodgers prefers. Often it's the guy you check down to when a QB is under pressure who would not be available if someone additional has to stay in and block. It's a tough balance and I can see why you would defer to Rodgers' judgement and comfort on this.

5. As far as loyalty to staff that's another one that's tough to strike a balance on. Where do you come down on a guy like Capers? All of those decisions are just brutal to make.

 

Good insight, thanks for posting.  

Regarding #4:  Funny that Rodgers wants the full allottment of pass catchers into the routes, but seems to seldom look to the check down option.  Might as well leave that player in to chip on the OT if Rodgers is not going to use him as an outlet often enough.

[incognito_man]

9 minutes ago, pollino14 said:

Did you read the beginning of the post? I said that I view him as a top tier coach, but there are things that worry me. This is not a " fire Mac" thread.

 

 

I did and I answered the question honestly. I don't worry about him ever. I've never once thought before a game "I wish we had someone else coaching us" or thought of him as a liability whatsoever. He's not perfect, I agree. But I am not even close to worrying about him. I generally don't worry at all, quite frankly - but the honest impressions I have of the team never include worries about MM.

[AlexGreen#20]

1 minute ago, squire12 said:

Good insight, thanks for posting.  

Regarding #4:  Funny that Rodgers wants the full allottment of pass catchers into the routes, but seems to seldom look to the check down option.  Might as well leave that player in to chip on the OT if Rodgers is not going to use him as an outlet often enough.

The irony had occured to me. 

Another aspect is that it might be pulling defenders out of deeper passing lanes and or keeping them in place while he's scrambling. It's a complicated balance like a lot of things on managing a thoroughbred offense.

[Haha21]

No I'm not worried about him. The main qualm I have with MM is when he has a lead late I feel like he gets too conservative with his play calling. I understand you want to run out the clock by running the ball, but opposing defenses are going to gear up to stop the run, it's very predictable. I would like see the play calling mixed up a bit in the closing minutes in an effort to take more time off the clock.

[pollino14]

4 minutes ago, NormSizedMidget said:

I read every word.

I don't over analyze every decision to death. I watch enough football to see nobody is immune.

I don't worry want l about him anymore than I would anyone but BB. What else should I expect? 

What you're trying to do is undermine people who can be objective about MMs style. I've said he's a top tier coach, but there are things that worry me. You can be a fan of something/ someone but find areas to improve you know.

[AlexGreen#20]

Just now, Haha21 said:

No I'm not worried about him. The main qualm I have with MM is when he has a lead late I feel like he gets too conservative with his play calling. I understand you want to run out the clock by running the ball, but opposing defenses are going to gear up to stop the run, it's very predictable. I would like see the play calling mixed up a bit in the closing minutes in an effort to take more time off the clock.

An understandable position, I do wonder though if you went back and looked what the failure rate of this stuff is.

Just playing scenarios, you're up 12 with 4 minutes to go.

Are you better off trying to score and risk giving the other team the ball back in a now one score game? or better off running three times, forcing the other team to use all it's timeouts and trying to force them to run 8 short/medium gains in a row to get it to one score? 

I feel like a lot of times we win a close game and breathe deeply thinking, "oh thank God we recovered that onside kick, that was really close" when McCarthy knows that like 97% of onside kicks go to the receiving team and that's a good gamble to take?

[Norm]

2 minutes ago, pollino14 said:

What you're trying to do is undermine people who can be objective about MMs style. I've said he's a top tier coach, but there are things that worry me. You can be a fan of something/ someone but find areas to improve you know.

What I'm trying to do is give fans of one team perspective on the other 31.

I never said he can't improve or is perfect.