DPOY 2019

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 hour ago, wwhickok said:

TJ Watt is the clear cut candidate here and it's not close tbh. Say what you want about Gilmore or Aaron Donald but neither of them are having the season that Watt is.

Not to take anything away from Gilmore but it is common knowledge that a good front 7 makes the job of a DB easier. So pass rush, etc makes things easier for Gilmore in a sense and to an extent. He is still an elite corner.

But Watt IS THE PASS RUSH. He is the guy making everyone else's job easier by doing all the work AND getting the stats to back it up

 

Just now, wwhickok said:

For the record, the top 3 candidates imo, are TJW, AD, SG in no particular order.

At the end of the day, whichever one wins it, will deserve it.

hmmmmmm

[VigilantZombie]

1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

Odds are that the Steelers are scheming Watt single teams. And it's a pretty safe bet that Watt would be less successful if he saw more double teams. How much less successful? Couldn't say. But if he were facing double teams at the rate Donald does, I feel quite confident that he wouldn't be producing like Donald is now. But as I said, DPOY is about a narrative, not who the best defensive player is. It's like MVP in that regard.

Overall I agree with your point, having said that, James Harrison saw a lot of double teams and was still a terror on defense. Imo, TJ Watt is better than Harrison.

AD overall, is the best Defensive player in the league, period, DPOY aside.

[VigilantZombie]

1 minute ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

 

hmmmmmm

Just because I dont think its that close doesnt mean the people behind him dont deserve it at all. 

I feel that Watt has been more dominant than the others and that it is clear statistically but I also agree with points that Jrry has made.

Behind the top.3 options I really dont think its close.

[jrry32]

4 minutes ago, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

It's crazy that not only is Donald statistically doing similar things to Watt (if not better things), but he's doing so while being the complete focal point of every offensive gameplan week in and week out.

Makes you wonder what he'd do if he saw single teams on 80% of his snaps. I think there was a crazy stat from earlier in the season that Donald was winning like 70% of his pass rush snaps when singled.

[AFlaccoSeagulls]

1 minute ago, wwhickok said:

Just because I dont think its that close doesnt mean the people behind him dont deserve it at all. 

I feel that Watt has been more dominant than the others and that it is clear statistically but I also agree with points that Jrry has made.

Behind the top.3 options I really dont think its close.

if you don't think it's close, how are the top 3 options interchangeable?!? lol

[VigilantZombie]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

if you don't think it's close, how are the top 3 options interchangeable?!? lol

The initial comment I made, "it's clear cut and not close" was unfair. I do think it's clear cut but its closer than I suggested. Having said that the only 2 I think are "interchangable" are AD and TJW.

I actually think Gilmore is the 3rd horse in the race.

[jrry32]

Just now, AFlaccoSeagulls said:

if you don't think it's close, how are the top 3 options interchangeable?!? lol

My man, you just gotta learn to accept progress where you can find it. 

[VigilantZombie]

4 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Makes you wonder what he'd do if he saw single teams on 80% of his snaps. I think there was a crazy stat from earlier in the season that Donald was winning like 70% of his pass rush snaps when singled.

If he saw singles.....I'm not even gonna beat around that bush, this race wouldnt be close because he'd have 30 sacks right now.

Edit: I think I just sold myself on AD lol.

Edited December 29, 2019 by wwhickok

[11sanchez11]

57 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

BTW, here are the DT numbers. If you look really hard, you can see Aaron Donald all by himself. 

So AD must be really bad at converting his pass rush wins into sacks. He should work on that.

[11sanchez11]

58 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

It's both true and obvious. He's producing a comparable amount of pressure while being doubled at five or six times the rate.

Well that's not really fair. The biggest reason he gets double teamed so much is cause he is lined up way closer to the QB. So him being singled should lead to more pressures than an outside rusher. 

[jrry32]

22 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

So AD must be really bad at converting his pass rush wins into sacks. He should work on that.

He has 44 sacks in 45 games over the past 3 years. Chandler Jones is the only player with more (49 sacks in 47 games). Nobody else comes to close 1 sack per game. So . . .

16 minutes ago, 11sanchez11 said:

Well that's not really fair. The biggest reason he gets double teamed so much is cause he is lined up way closer to the QB. So him being singled should lead to more pressures than an outside rusher. 

Are you trolling? Because this is an objectively dumb argument. Few interior rushers can produce pressure at the rate of top edge rushers. And it's not just because of double teams. Interior rushers line up closer to the QB, but they have way less room to operate. 

[Split the Sticks]

9 hours ago, wwhickok said:

TJ Watt is the clear cut candidate here and it's not close tbh. Say what you want about Gilmore or Aaron Donald but neither of them are having the season that Watt is.

Not to take anything away from Gilmore but it is common knowledge that a good front 7 makes the job of a DB easier. So pass rush, etc makes things easier for Gilmore in a sense and to an extent. He is still an elite corner.

But Watt IS THE PASS RUSH. He is the guy making everyone else's job easier by doing all the work AND getting the stats to back it up

Oh what you said, Mister Wwhickok!! And listen, I am not trying to change your mind about TJ at all, I think he's awesome. But your argument against Gilmore is just so wrong. Yes, I am a Patriots fan. 

Do you honestly think the Patriots front 7 is real strong?  Yes, one LB made the pro bowl but that's it. A defensive line that *nobody* knows their name. I won't call them 'scrubs' but these players are only about ordinary. Ever hear of Lawrence Guy?  He's likely the best of the DL's. He was on 5 other teams and rode the bench,  mostly. John Simon - another former bench rider. Adam Butler. WhoHe? LB Van Noy, another bench rider from Detroit.Yeah they're good but trust me, "good" is as good as it gets.

What we have in New England is an inverted defense. That is, on a typical defense, the front 7 dives in and pressures the passer hopefully before the WR's get open and therefor, make the DB's look good.

The patriots are the opposite. Their CB's are so freekin' good that they give more time for the front 7 to dive in. If you want verification of this, please note that the patriots run defense is crappy. How can this be for a team with a great front 7? 

You have to face the fact that Gilmore is the backbone of the defense. Him and 3 other corners that are the best in the NFL. Truly. Our 4th guy, JC Jackson is poised to take over #2 from McCourty and could likely play #1 on some teams. 

The upshot is.. Gilmore is the freekin' bomb and go from there. No shame in favoring TJ and he may get it.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Split the Sticks

[sammymvpknight]

Lots of great players but I went with Gilmore who is far and away the best at his position right now

[VigilantZombie]

12 minutes ago, Split the Sticks said:

Oh what you said, Mister Wwhickok!! And listen, I am not trying to change your mind about TJ at all, I think he's awesome. But your argument against Gilmore is just so wrong. Yes, I am a Patriots fan. 

Do you honestly think the Patriots front 7 is real strong?  Yes, one LB made the pro bowl but that's it. A defensive line that *nobody* knows their name. I won't call them 'scrubs' but these players are only about ordinary. Ever hear of Lawrence Guy?  He's likely the best of the DL's. He was on 5 other teams and rode the bench,  mostly. John Simon - another former bench rider. Adam Butler. WhoHe? LB Van Noy, another bench rider from Detroit.Yeah they're good but trust me, "good" is as good as it gets.

What we have in New England is an inverted defense. That is, on a typical defense, the front 7 dives in and pressures the passer hopefully before the WR's get open and therefor, make the DB's look good.

The patriots are the opposite. Their CB's are so freekin' good that they give more time for the front 7 to dive in. If you want verification of this, please note that the patriots run defense is crappy. How can this be for a team with a great front 7? 

You have to face the fact that Gilmore is the backbone of the defense. Him and 3 other corners that are the best in the NFL. Truly. Our 4th guy, JC Jackson is poised to take over #2 from McCourty and could likely play #1 on some teams. 

The upshot is.. Gilmore is the freekin' bomb and go from there. No shame in favoring TJ and he may get it.

 

 

I'm not saying NE has a great front 7. I'm saying it's the preconceived perception of the position. It's why DBs rarely win it.

Not remotely am I suggesting Gilmore is undeserving. 

[Split the Sticks]

2 minutes ago, wwhickok said:

I'm not saying NE has a great front 7. I'm saying it's the preconceived perception of the position. It's why DBs rarely win it.

Not remotely am I suggesting Gilmore is undeserving. 

Well ya sorta are lol. You said he was third in the race. But whatever. I do agree that DB's don't get this award because fans love sacks.